This discussion is no longer even close to related to the topic of the MiG-29
and other users are becoming political in their discourse.
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Ah you are right, lets move on.
We can move it to the R-73 thread, just trying to avoid this conversation becoming an issue in itself.
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Ima save this picture though its good reference.
Thank you,
not all.R-40T and R-23T,R-27T
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You are absolutely right, and we can even say the R60 and 73 are purely the Soviet’s intellectual properties 100%.
However, these missiles are obsolete, and no other country has continued to build upon these configurations. Not saying they are obsolete during their initial deployment. They are great missile for their time and much feared.
However, in aerial combat in 21st century where “close range” is not so close anymore. The old Soviet doctrine of investing more in “knife fighting” is obsolete.
My point is if the R73 are so aerodynamic with an amazing 30km effective range… Why are they not researched and developed further outside of the Russian Federation by other superpower nations?
That is a fair, valid & unbiased assessment.
interesting, but we only have one in game, bro…
So essentially the Mig29 is supposed to have both R73s in one missile, capable on not going too fast, with thrust vectoring to hit high off boresight targets at high angles of attack, but also it is the most aerodynamic IR missile that has a 30km range and should cut through the air perfectly and run down high supersonic targets at long range too??
Why didn’t we establish we are talking about two different types of R73s at the same time?
This would be really neat in the correct thread
There is no R-60 equivalent for China, they went down the AIM-9 path until introduction of the sidewinder and TVC, in which case they still trend with the west for design philosophy.
R-13 is a russian copy of the AIM-9
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Hopefully come Tuesday or Wednesday we see those promised FM changes that will (maybe) improve the MiG-29’s situation.
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I am still trying to ascertain what the Mig-29’s “situation” is.
The SMT is absolutely amazing. All Mig29s needs is more nose authority in high angles of attack and at slower speeds.
Any other buffs to mig29s FM or its missiles besides bug fixes is going to render the aircraft overpowered. The aircraft already has a 15Km-20km helmet mount IRST lock range when it says 10km range. Very sneaky buff there… I mean bug.
Anyone can pull a 4:1 kd in it casually flying as it stands right now. Anyone.
For people to say, “I am not going to play the SMT untill they fix it” are actually less likely to know what it actually needs… not pointing fingers.
I am not concerned with how it performs in regards to other aircraft in-game, I am only reporting historical discrepancy in performance / capability.
In this case, the instability and unrecoverable spin qualities are the issue I am most concerned about. And I don’t think it will be much more “OP” since at the moment the SMT can’t even go toe-to-toe with a Mirage 2000.
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But historical discrepancy always comes last to how aircraft perform in relation to its competition. That is how GJ operates. Balance supersedes all.
Even in the case that they make it perform how it should, it is severely outperformed by the F-16 (all variants) currently so I don’t think that this comment is true. “Fixing” the MiG-29 would not make anything more or less balanced.
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Well the SMT is a much heavier airframe with heavier missiles and not supported with a powerful fly-by-wire computer.
You can say “oh FBW is not modelled” all you want. The actual physical computer and module is not obviously. But its characteristics are and why it can rate as good as it does in WT.
Additionally, when you fly with instructor we are flying with a fly-by-wire concept and program. When your wings auto sweep in the Mig23M they are artificially supported by a computer that never existed in the real-life model.
Again, if I can pull a 4:1 kd in this current meta not even flying it exclusively. ANYONE can. Especially if they fly it exclusively.
Well, unlike real life we have no concern for airframe longevity and the MiG-23 was more than capable of going throughout the entire speed envelope at 45 degree sweep so this is not a serious concern.
I’m not certain if the SMT used a FBW or not, I’m reporting on the original 9-12 and 9-13 MiG-29s which also struggle quite heavily against the Mirage 2000. The by-product of them fixing the 9-12 and 9-13 is that the SMT might be remotely usable because at the moment a single hard turn can send it into unrecoverable spin conditions.
It’s good you learned something from when we flew the original MiG-29 together.
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Yes, you have taught me many things and tactics for the Mig29 and that are key to a high KD in it.
Like vertical performance over attempting to rate everything.
But the SMT is not your average Mig29. Its better flown as a NATO fighter and western doctrine of being a standoff platform.
I agree, I just don’t want it to go into spin conditions in sim when I have to tighten down at the top of a vertical loop or whatever. It makes it very hard / dangerous to fly the SMT without putting severe limitations on how hard you pull the stick on occasion. It even said clearly in the TsAGI paper that these conditions do not develop from sudden pitch excursions, rather from sustained AoA beyond the limiter where oscillations cause the instability.
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Thats what I keep asking and looking for data on. Because if it did, it should have better rate performance. Even just a minor assisted FBW