i think the EA is stronger than the ER but im not sure tbh
The R-27EA was never made it was cancelled while still on the drawing board essentially
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do u know if the 29 should be better than the f16s in one circle? i know it is similar in other scenarios like 2 circle, energy, rate fights, but looks like the 29 should perform better at 1 circle than the f16 (not by much but still)
Yes, Mig29 should be better then F-16 in one circle fight.
But right now F-16 dominates one circle fight against everything, even Mirage2k is suffering which shouldnt be the opposite.
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Very much so, the F-16 is limited to 25° above stall speeds for the most part, MiG-29 is capable of 90-110° AoA in real life.
Even if you don’t pull so hard to exceed AoA limiter, MiG-29 can safely execute and sustain 26° AoA during steady turns which is slightly better than F-16.
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Director of TsAGI is apparently a bad source
https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.1993-4737
States very clearly with charts the MiG-29 is capable of Cobra maneuvers in standard configuration.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1048840984177430540/1152297390167031838/image.png
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1048840984177430540/1152297508840685740/image.png
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1048840984177430540/1152297569217691859/image.png
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1048840984177430540/1152297612658081822/image.png
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1048840984177430540/1152297650369081404/image.png
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oh ok thanks for the answer you and @MiG_23M , mig29 just feels too bad rn in everything other than shooting missiles.
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hey mig, check your private messages when u can
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@iso_gate Please check my comment that I am replying to.
I understand you do not have sufficient data on post-critical AoA and performances to properly model the aircraft but it was known for it’s capacity to self-recover simply by letting go of the stick. Is any of this helpful?
Also, are you aware of the current discourse towards the MiG-29 since the spin and lift / drag changes? The FM has been significantly altered from what was already a pretty good position.
The aircraft is now VERY hard to recover, loses speed at rates higher than that of the F-4E or some Delta aircraft (and far worse than the Mirage 2000?)… Is this intentional? And if so is there any documentation that can be shown to us that would ease our minds about how realistic this change to the FM may or may not be?
As you can see here, the changes did not fix the AoA. It is now still only capable of a sudden pitch up to 48 degrees maximum.
Further, the aircraft suffers from nearly unrecoverable spins during basic low speed and high AoA maneuvering or attempts to maintain in control of the aircraft at relatively low AoA in comparison to other Gen4 fighters lesser known for their high AoA stability.
Several documents have stated the MiG-29 has superb handling at high AoA and low speeds, in-game it is nearly impossible to fly in such conditions. [Source]
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/398367636213334018/1154659040752840784/image.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1048840984177430540/1154657954767839293/image.png
It simply makes no sense that the F-16 (known for it’s deep stalls and instability) (source) is capable of throwing the nose around as if it were completely immune to stalls / instability but the MiG-29 in-game currently falls out of the sky after one turn.
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Let’s see this manual then?
Finished doing testing yesterday…
It’s so underperforming compared to the manuals it’s not even funny.
Just did the bug report:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/kQdgvbawLXkN
1 Like
Did 3 tests, all with 20 min fuel, 4 R60Ms and 2 R27Ts, which is a very close load out to the one used in the charts (20 min fuel should be 1600kg of fuel, which is only 100 more than what the manual says the graph refer to and R27Ts are 10Kg lighter than the 27Rs, so the difference in weight is only 80Kg). Turn time=time to complete a full circle.
test 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6PzZrNyfDs 1000m altitude, ~680kph IAS, ~710kph TAS. Turn time: ~21.2 seconds.
test 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt-wR2g9q2U 5000m altitude, ~650kph IAS, ~850kph TAS. Turn time: ~31.8 seconds.
test 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dZsH0kxl4k 5000m altitude, ~350kph IAS, ~450kph TAS. Turn time: ~37.8 seconds.
In all 3 test final speed is lower than starting speed, so actual sustained turn time is probably a bit higher.
By comparison, according to the charts, the sustained turn times for the various tests should be respectively: ~19.89 seconds, ~28.64 seconds, ~35.58 seconds.
This turn times were calculated from the graph using L/V , where L is the length of the circumference and V (in m/s) is the TAS speed. The length of the circumference is calculated with 2πR, where R is determined by V^2/(G*9.81) , where G is the vertical G acceleration indicated in the charts.
The old flight model achieved figures similar to those times.
In general the the reason for this worsened performance seems to be a big drag increase (compared to the old flight model) when pulling any meaningful AoA. This is because in general the aircraft clearly loses a lot more energy than before in turns, and the difference with the old flight models is worse the lower altitude and the lower the fuel load.
Using mouse aim, 8 minutes of fuel, sea level altitude and no missiles loaded the 9-13 was able to rate at 470kph IAS sustained with a time of 16.9 seconds, now it struggles to keep the speed above 430kph IAS and completes the same turn in over 18.5 seconds.
3 Likes
Yup its really bad that im using my SMT just like how i used F4C back in the day.
Fly fast, shoot your missiles and dont get into any furball unless i have clear advantage.
Meanwhile F-16’s flying around like they are in Air arcade…
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Yeah F-16s are nuts right now lol. 9g limiter was lame, they just needed to give it 13-12Gs like every other 9g aircraft (9*1.5= 13).
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Like using the Yak-38 back when it was added.
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Exactly, thats what i was constantly demanding for F-16.
All they had to do was to buff F-16 models while keeping Mig29’s same but as always Gaijin finds a way to brake the balance compeletly.
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That is what they have done. It’s just the f-16 is a far superior dogfighter than the mig29, as it is in real life.
Yeah, like the yak38 it loses speed like a bus, turns decent at high speed, is fast, and has missiles that SHOULD NOT be at that br
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F-16s are pulling 16Gs when turning right now lol, it’s completely stupid. Also the F-16 is far from a “far superior dogfighter” compared to the 29.
Also there’s no point in arguing. We have the manual, this are the rate times, and in game they are far worse than what they are in the charts.
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Show me a source where it shows F-16 is superior to Mig29 in every single dogfight scenario.
Oh wait you cant because you’re just false claiming in order to keep F-16’s this way while letting Mig29’s suffer.
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