What makes you think that? It is a tactic that Flankers us to quickly change direction under radar missile threat.
Supermaneuvrability is not just for dogfighting. It’s for advanced radar defeating technique as well, such as notching.
Again, the Americans understand this. Why they equip their 5th generation air superiority fighters with it.
6th generation with have thrust vectoring too.
Yea its so effective that USA decided not to use Canards+Thrust Vectoring combo on F-15 despite it was better then anything before, or better yet they decided to use 2D thrust vectoring on F-22 only.
Those maneuvers are nothing but Airshow moves.
On paper yes, in reality it doesn’t train on the Su 27 ( I think for multiple reasons), maybe on the Su 35 or 57.
Because it makes the F-15 heavier, ruins visibility & they already have the F-22.
I just told you it is also used for radar defeating techniques. But you chose to ignore that.
You both chose to ignore that the F-22 is supermaneuverable for a reason. Because there are major tactical advantages in it besides dogfighting. Thrust vectoring is very expensive to maintain. The Americans did not just add it for “air show tricks”.
Not even close.
The whole reason why USA decided not adopt Super agility was because F-15’s and F-16’s was already quite Agile.
Even Germans decided not to adopt Thrust Vectoring on Typhoon because it was not needed by any means.
This is the Mig29 thread.
Please ping me in whatever thread you wish to discuss.
F-22 was created with only one goal and that was the get Air Superiority under any scenario, and even then USA only used 2D vectors instead of 3D.
Considering that its been well established that mig29A pilots have practiced manoeuvring at high AoA through the pitch kicker well past their standard AoA limit. And after the initial 29 A models all modernised 29’s and 27’s have come with not only fbw systems but also specifically have the capacity to deliberately disable standard limits to utilise Alpha way past 24 AoA. I think then that its reasonable to assume russian MOD finally saw the merit to high alpha capability and would train at least some of their pilots to utilise these expanded flight envelopes.
Yes & that is why it has thrust vectoring. Without it, the Raptor cannot gain air superiority under EVERY scenario against its known enemies.
The Su27 Flanker.
You are defeating your own argument.
Well, regardless of high maneuverability being useful or not, the fact is that both the 29 and the su27 are high maneuverable IRL, which they lack ingame
You’re just empty talking.
Thailand Gripen’s dumped on Chinese Flankers in combat training without any Thrust Vectoring abilities, whats your excuse for that?
Ok, so? Philippine Air Force killed a F-22 with a FA-50
These training exercises place fighters at different odds. Some starting in a chase. Its only training & the rules of engagements are classified. Means nothing
Please tag me in appropriate thread. This is mig29 thread I will not reply on the matter unless its related.
On the gripen x j11 duels you guys are talking about bvr or wvr?
wvr
bvr
Like how Su-27’s fancy maneuvers means nothing in actual combat scenario? I agree.
Im also waiting your response for my latest F4F ICE reply, you claimed that both planes cannot be at same weight and stated that F4E cannot have internal gun due to having large,old electronics.
Today the situation and possibilities are different, but Russia suffered for many, many years from the fact that pilots had very few flying hours and practiced manoeuvre combat minimally and if so very limited.
Thus the use of manoeuvres in high AoA was practically minimal. On the other hand US pilots ( I am not a US fan) were much better at it.
I’m not talking now about the use of “super maneuverability” at higher speeds. That was not practiced at all - too risky.
I was reffering to VVR fight that contains additional information, according to other report flankers Lost to Gripen’s where Ir missiles didnt used, in other scenarios however Flankers dumped on Gripen’s Due to R-73 advantage.
And HMD advantage.
HMD+R73 is pretty much standart thing for Russian based Jets, thats why i didnt mentioned in the first place.
Yes, the Thai Gripen didn’t have that.
but according to this source it was using pl8s, those don’t have thrust vectoring if i’m not mistaken, the duel happened in 2015