That’s literally why I have said earlier supermaneuverability is a vague term, and in different papers is defined in different ways that, in practice, tend to converge but are still different.
You can define supermaneuverability as “achieving 90 or whatever X value degrees AoA”, and then you would consider supermaneuvrable any aircraft that can do that no matter how it does that (in practice 90 degree AoA will always result in flow detachment, but what is important here is that, by that definition, if you could reach 90 degree AoA without flow detachment you would consider that aircraft supermaneuvrable).
Instead the definition that TSAGI presents Is one that is based on the fact that the aircraft can maneuver despite the control surfaces being stalled out, which means that the aircraft is manoeuvring using different principles compared to the conventional ones , and in that case any aircraft that can maneuver after complete stall of his control surfaces is then considered supermaneuvrable (and that’s a deeper concept compared to reaching X value AoA).
Also as far as my English understanding goes here:
It says that supermaneuvrability allows the aircraft to reach ~90 degree AoA, not that reaching 90 degree AoA is what defines supermaneuvrability.
You are misquoting again lol. That was said when I was explaining why THIS:
Is different from THIS:
You can have an aircraft achieving his maximum lift at 30 degree AoA and not stall until over 60 degrees AoA, it’s also something that is ver common in military aircraft
We are not talking about angles of attack that are very common among military aircraft.
He said you have Autism Mig. He has Asperger’s syndrome @MaMoran20. Before you go misdiagnosing people.
Jerk.
Secondly at least he can hold more than a 3 post conversation. You can barely speak English my guy.
Lastly you guys are the ones obsessed with reading out conversations an arguments, because lets be honest they are entertaining af and we both get fan mail about it.
Yeah, and yet you come here and read every single post. Because whether you want to admit it or not.,
Me and Mig has generated a high interest in this platform with our back and forth bickering. It is hilarious at time and we both apologize as it gets over the top sometimes. But entertaining and educational it surely is.
Mods actively keep an eye on this thread and probably get a kick out verbal fencing we do on a daily basis. Woe is you; boohoo I am sorry.
Do you have anything to offer about the Mig29s Supermaneuvrability?
Additionally, you are absolutely right. It does not say what other degrees below are classified as supermaneuverable. You and @MiG_23M are correct.
But what it does cover is up to 60-degree alpha in the study of High maneuverability.
The author discuses supermaneuvrability at 90°, additionally most supermaneuverable regimes or “dynamic attainment” (I think all) consist of 90° maneuvers.
For example, the Pugachev’s Cobra is done properly at 90° and even a little flare of above. The Mig29 is capable as well as the Su27.
So it is appropriate to say that 90° is the standard. However, what other degrees fall under the ubrella of “supermaneuverable” I have yet to find. I am open to suggestions and your research.
The falling leaf is actually mentioned by name and the performance as well as how it’s done is described in the F/A-18A NATOPS. The FLCS has modes specifically to allow such maneuvers. Even the Cobra is possible, just not permitted. (It’s not permitted in the MiG-29 manual either).
Pugachev’s Cobra the F18 is incapable. Please show of 90 degrees but do it in the F-18 thread.
I am trying to get this aircraft its correct alpha and not turn this into an “America! F yeah!” Trump Rally. Thank you.
The Fulcrum is not capable of the falling leaf at 90 degrees as far as I know, but the F-18 is? If what you say is true, then we can monitor it when it’s released.
But in the meantime, the Mig29 is the issue at hand.
What are you talking about. You know that is the bs excuse on behalf of devs.
You even posted a video of the Mig29 performing the cobra and the announcers were even stating that the Mig29 needs no flight control that the aircraft is so barebones and mechanically driven by the pilot even the airbrakes are pneumatic.
MY 1972 VW beetle uses pneumatic brakes. Completely mechanical.
