One question.Can someone post an image of the mantlet’s internal armor? I ask because if you look at it, it only indicates that it has 80mm plus about 25mm of internal armor, but it stops APDS-FS rounds, and when it penetrates, it looks like there’s a large block of steel inside.
Which is pretty easy to do
Pretty easy?
Unless you are really bad at aiming for the ammo rack / turret cheeks, it’s not that difficult to kill.
Not every shot is on a static target at 200 meters that isnt looking at you
Those things have some of the most annoying mantlets I’ve ever seen in the game.
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Hahaha, a prize for the devs for the great work they do.
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What tank were you shooting at it with?
DM23, which is commonly found at 8.3 / 8.7.
Here is what I am talking about: (Dart used is a OFL 105 F3 from the AMX-10P, a wheeled tank destroyer at 8.3)
This looks like it easily pens in most places, however:
In the red areas you are not likely to always penetrate, in the orange areas you are likely to do little damage, and in the pink areas you are likely to only kill the driver out of the turret crew. This basically leaves the black area as viable targets for the AMX-10P.
The reason I choose the AMX-10P to show off what I’m talking about is because while DM23 is not uncommon, it’s also not the only rounds fired at these BRs and its also not super common until 8.7+. Prior to that, more uncommon darts are usually the ones being fired. In addition, the thread is more so talking about what is being fired at these from the perspective of someone being uptiered and not someone who is also playing 9.0+
AMX-10P?
You mean the AMX-10RC?
OFL 105 F3 is marginally worse than DM23.
Sure. I agree with you here.
Yes, though the forehead of the XM803 / MBT-70 / KPZ-70 are likely to a little or a lot of damage:
Safe to say it’s inconsistent.
I agree, but as soon as they aren’t completely looking at you, it’s free real estate for either side – just like with the other NATO 9.3 MBTs.
The only tanks that don’t shoot DM23 or better at 8.3 / 8.7 are the Russian / Japanese / American MBTs. So I do pitty them.
But even then, the black area you presented is still an option.
The problem with the these MBTs is that they only have three crew members, and two of which are situated right behind each other, meaning that if you do aim for the black box that you mention, it’s going to almost always one-shot the vehicle.
Look at the Leopard 1A5, or the OF-40 (MTCA).
Sure, they don’t have nearly as useful armour in a full downtier, but they can often tank a hit, even if the hit was perfectly placed.
At most you will get their gunner + loader and maybe their breech + hydraulic pump (if they have one), but they are still alive and can retreat back to cover.
It’s a much bigger issue for the XM803 / MBT-70 / KPZ-70 if you shoot the right cheek and get their driver than it is for an OF-40 (MTCA) or Leopard 1A5 to have their loader get killed too.
And what happens if you’re in the XM803 / MBT-70 / KPZ-70 and only have two crew members? You can die from either cheek in one-shot.
If the OF-40 (MTCA) or Leopard 1A5 had only two crew members left, you would have to still go for the left cheek.
Either way, these types of MBTs shouldn’t really rely on their armour / survivabililty to begin with, even in a full downtier.
yeah I did
Yeah? But this is true for vehicles in the game, what I’m saying is that the mbt70 series has decent turret armor for their BR, and I’d say my above pic says they do
For example the other 9.0/9.3 nato MBTs:
Basically all of this is pennable/damagable on most turrets. The MBT70 series has a much smaller area of actual shootable zone.
The only exception to MBTs at this BR that have comparable or better turret armor are the Merkavas and the Olifant Mk2 which I just found out about looking through these tanks. It has quite a bit more armor on the turret than I imagined.
Dm23 more or less has the same zones shown above except you are more likely to penetrate the red zones however both red zones will not offer high damage if you did pen and basically turn into the pink zones
It’s also more so that like I said earlier, autocannon vehicles are still one of the biggest threats at this BR to most vehicles and as long as you are hull down, the mbt70s are all pretty durable to this, even higher caliber ones like the ZSU-57-2 or 2S38 using APHE.
Maybe if you mean only when hull down, and the guy shoots on the extreme ends of the turret so he either only takes out their gun entirely (gunner+commander) or only takes out their loader. If they shoot center mass on turret, which is the easiest shot to make anyway, they are likely to kill all 3 crew in the turret. The mbt70 series at least makes you aim for the off switch in a specific zone rather than it being “the center mass of the turret” assuming both penetrate.
Exactly, it’s nothing special.
T-72As, T-64As, and even T-55AM-1s / T-62M-1s have better armour when they’re not looking:
I agree with you, but that smaller area of actual shootable zone often leads to one-shots, unlike with all these others tanks that you posted here. The only exception being the STRV 103’s and M60’s giant forehead.
Only having two remaining crews also means that both cheeks results in a one-shot.
You’re forgetting the Gal Batash too.
To be fair XM803 is really strong at 9.0 and it should be looked into.
It’s definitely not 9.3 material though.
I edited my earlier reply to have more responses
Neither it is 9.0 at the current state of the game.
That’s true. I wouldn’t say you need any more than that anyways.
Maybe, though I’ve mostly been killed by MBTs / light tanks with main cannons / ATGMs, so while it helps to be immune to 30mm APDS / APFSDS, it’s not really the end of the world.
But I do have a lot of experience dying to the 35mm APHE from the ITPSV, PGZ09, and especially the XM246… though that’s more of an SPAA thing that needs to get fixed…
Sure but I doubt anybody using the 2S38 would use APHE against the XM803 / MBT-70 / KPZ-70.
Typically the center mass shot on the breech / mantlet area of stuff like the OF-40 MTCA and Leopard 1A5 gets the breech and possibly one or two crew members. Rarely is it ever all three.
Yeah, they need to move up with Obj 279, XM803, and M60 TTS after decompression.
Though the Class 3 (P) can definitely go to 9.3 with no issues.
Honestly, I think the MBT-70 is a good tank at first glance (I haven’t used it yet), but it’s not a particularly spectacular vehicle. I recently upgraded the Chieftain Mk10, and when I faced it, I usually encountered MBT-70s (American and German), and they didn’t seem like a very impressive enemy, since if I fired first, I usually killed them with a single shot unless I hit the gun mantlet. With the Chieftain Mk10, I found the T-64s and especially the T-72A and M1 (I won’t even mention the T-80UD) much more dangerous thanks to their huge RNG, which doesn’t guarantee that a penetration will kill them. Besides, many times you have to shoot them in weak points where a millimeter above the target means the shot won’t penetrate.