this is the altitude where proxy fuse cant work properly anymore. its not about radar
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Imo, it would help fix the balance issue and should never have been even as high as 60m.
It is easy to cherry pick some examples where MP might be necessary to create balance, but when taken as a whole, it does more harm than good.
There are many aircraft in game that have a core performance dictated by radar performance + SARH. Not gunfighting/dogfighting performance. MP Forced many of those aircraft both into a lower BR than they should be or into dogfights they will never win.
For example. Tornado F3. It is dependent on SARH. Target hiding below MP height? Well, time to run away, because there isnt much you are going to do about it. Should its BR now be dictated by its pretty poor gunfighting performance and lowered to 11.3?
Likewise, why are the PD equipped F-4s any higher than the BR of F-4s without PD? PD’s main advantage is being able to detect people at low alt within ground clutter. If you cant engage people at low alt because of MP, why have them at a higher BR?
Even when ARH is brought into the mix, several aircraft are hard to justify even being close to 13.0, like the Sea Harrier FA2. If everyone is defeating missile just by flying low, then why is its BR based around the fact it has AMRAAM? Why is it not balanced around having 4x Aim-9M and 2x 30mm Canon with only 60cms, which places it below the Harrier Gr7, maybe 12.0?
Because this is really really dumb gameplay:
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LMAO
If you think the F-14 is some boogieman, it says a lot more about your skill issues than anything else.
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It is objectively oppressive for lower tiers. You’re somehow managing to miss that, be it from being obtuse or just ignorant.
You’re simply shifting whose turn it is to become miserable.
And calling it “skill issue” frankly tells me that your opinion isn’t worth a lot.
What aircraft between 12.0 and 13.0 (or 11.7 to 12.7) is truly suffering because they are 100% dependent on multipathing to defend against SARH/ARH missiles?
The only one I can think of is the Italian F-104 with a shockingly bad RWR that probably should be a lower BR anyway.
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Anything with a SPO-10 (Mainly MiG-23s) and Mirage F1s are the standing examples. There is the Italian Starfighter, too.
As for this, I agree and it simply shows another side of my argument; fundamentally speaking, you’re simply deciding which side to screw.
Removing the multipathing will simply make the higher-tier radars and weaponry dominate.
Leaving multipathing does neuter some SARH-based loadouts to some degree.
There’s just no straightforward answer to how to solve it best.
Perhaps making it dynamic or based on radar generation?
Decompression would also help massively; separate the defenseless from the SARH buses, and have them fight each other.
Well… Mig-23ML/MLA are an absolute menace in downtiers given their all-aspect IRs and the R-24T performance, and they arent too shabby in a dogfight either. Arguably they are some of the strongest 11.7s in game right now and for the sake of those below, should be a higher BR.
Also the R-24R is one of the strongest SARH at that BR, and so they would be buffed quite a bit by the removal of MP
Mirage F1s are getting a Phimat pod to bolster there already excellent CM count by another 216 large calibre chaff. They should have no issue deal with ARH threats
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I think one cannot happen without the other.
Yes MP reduction (Even to 40m) would probably result in some aircraft needing to move BRs, but that probably needs to happen anyway with or without any changes, but now the end equations are more fair (for example the Tornado F3 should probably not be the same BR as the F4s, but likewise has no buissness being the same BR as the F-16 or even the F-18 with MP set to even 60m)
I would like when possible for MP to be set on a missile by missile basis and accurate to each. thoguh for some like the Skyflash that would basically mean no MP.
But there must come a point where the bandaid just needs to be ripped off and the damage that is below can finally be fixed/heal. People were saying that the reduction to 60m would be the death of the game and imo, the game is better now than it has been in years for many many aircraft
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F-14s suffer
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And that touches on the issue that is… compression. Welp.
And you’re not solving the core of my argument here; you’re enabling an entire new playstyle that allows unpunished bullying for ARH spam.
There’s no actual counter or equivalent for the BVR capabilities that the F-14 has, save for the R-27ER carriers.
Planes would be forced to go defensive and stay there because you can’t;
- Either guide a missile for long enough before having to defend yourself.
- Get in range for IR.
And that would not be good gameplay.
The mirage getting more CMs is good, but that does not solve the core tension.
And the changes would affect up to top tier, too. It would make the Eurofighter, F-15E, and Rafale even stronger.
Imo, that is from bad gamemode/map design. Everyone taking off from a single point flying towards the enemy team who also took off from a single point. No wonder ARH spam is bad.
Should that be fixed by MP or should that be fixed by better map design?
And that doesnt even include more dynamic and interesting maps that would allow for terrain masking.
Let them waste their missile. Once defeated by notch/chaff or just kinematically, they are no stronger than anything else.
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There would be a time for the MP bandaid to come off, but not while we’re still suffering from compression.
That would just be balance-breaking.
Focus on moving things up and down first, and then we can start thinking about it.
As for the 60M reductions, it did make the game hell for a while until the balance was readjusted.
There is an argument to be made that they wont ever fix it whilst the bandaid exists.
they look so heavily at player stats, that the player stats may not show an issue with the F-14A being at 12.7 and there being no need to decompress because people are defending so easily using MP
Remove/lower it and then fix the damage afterwards. May suck for a month or so, but is better than it never happening out of fear of it being bad short term.
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It’s the symptom of a larger issue, but MP alliviates it right now-- which is why we have it.
There is a lot to fix before MP can truly go, and just ignoring those factors and immediately removing is simply not going to work.
They may not be, but your team is completely suppressed and the enemy team is very well-positioned and ready to completely steamroll you.
And THAT is an issue.
Barely.
barely
They’re horrible missiles.
You can’t use it because it’s the hottest plane in the game. Instant IR missile death.
They already do that ingame because that’s what they’re designed to do. Removing multipath allows others to do the same.
That’s not a fact. That’s a biased opinion. The magic 2 at that low BR in general makes it way better than the F-14A.
As I said jsut above… There is an argument to be made that there is nothing to fix currently because there is MP.
What incentive is there to add stock chaff, to make better maps, to change core gamemode design, to adjust BRs, etc etc. Without also changing MP.
Maybe it should all happen at once, maybe MP needs incremental reductions that allow for things to be fixed one at a time. But one thing is certain. The status quo really isnt tennable for all that much longer
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I dislike that alternative.
I just fundamentally disagree that a shock treatment is the way to go in this scenario.
We can try and pressure gaijin into solving those underlying issues, and THEN remove the bandaids.
But turning an entire bracket(s, depending on how far you wanna go) into a wasteland for an undetermined amount of time is an awful idea.
It really wouldn’t fix balance issues. Hell it would probably create even more.
You’ll likely see more planes getting questionable BR moves like the F-16A.
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