15rps/900rpm*
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Also, I didn’t just make up the “3x rule”, which is more of a guideline and not a given for all missiles, obv:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/762218683266236436/997470423992250398/unknown.png
To be clear, this also says, “to ensure a hit”
You can still have a chance to hit targets with a lower gload, but the chances are greatly diminshed, which probly explains why Igla has about a 30-40% hit rate, vs 93% for Mistral 1 and 97% for Mistral 2…
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Could you share the document ? I’d be interested to have a look at it in more details
Sure, it was one of my sources for my Mistral report, so it was in there anyway:
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Moderators kindly avoid the topic
No one is trying to tell you that the mistral can sutain 25G for ever.
Obviously a missile will lose overload capacity as it loses energy, but this also applies to non rolling missiles (R73, Magic II, AIM9M, AAM3, Pythons, you name it).
The devblog specified before that the “average” vs “peak” G overload has nothing to do with the energy state of the missile, but refers specifically to the fact that it rolls :
more details in this post
You can also re-read the article.
With all that in mind. The Igla should pull an average 10.2G on one complete rotation at its maximum energy state, the mistral should pull 25G average also at its maximum energy state, and not 16G. The stinger should pull 22G average, then again at its maximum energy state, not 13G.
Why is the 0.63 (10G instead of 16G) factor only correct on the igla you may ask, and why should the mistral and stinger not be restricted to 16G and 13G repectively ? Simply because the guidance law is not the same. Igla uses bang bang. You can see it as a switch : one position will steer the fin in the desired direction, the other will steer the fins to neutral.
Why is there a neutral position ? Because the missile rolls, and if you don’t put the fin back to neutral, it will end up steering in the wrong direction. Multiple posts explain this in the first 100 messages
Meanwhile, mistral and stinger use PID. Instead of being a switch-like mechanism, the fins will gradually adjust to match the desired steering angle during the entire rotation the missile makes on itself, therefore making it much more efficient.
Not to mention having only 16G on a mistral wouldn’t match the efficiency advertised by Matra / MBDA, which may i remind you, is a first hand source according to gaijin bug reporting rules
If you want more sources regarding mistrals, there is this topic
Sorry i’m a bit stubborn sometimes X)
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I do find it funny that china have a very similar missile to the stinger that can pull 16/18g meanwhile gaijin are claiming its not possible
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Because Gaijin does not allow the emergence of weapons more powerful than Russia, if there are, they will force the balance
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So, they use Russian document to prove that western source is unbelievable higher number, but same time says that the Russian document on Abram’s armor is unbelievable higher number as well
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The hypocrisy in posting this is palpable, you said in the Abrams devblog that russian sources are not reliable on western equipment. However, you use russian sources on the 9M39 missile to make assumptions that are easily disproven by western sources that gimp the stinger and mistral to ridiculous levels.
Source 1: CTTO/6/5/Air CTTO Jaguar Tactics Manual 3rd Edition
This British manual provides details of the various threats a Jaguar pilot may face. It states that the maximum lateral acceleration of the Stinger is 20 g.
Source 2: Generation III: Stinger and Mistral - US Défense Intelligence Agency presentation
This presentation states that the manoeuvrability of the Stinger is 22 g.
Whether all of this is to push one nation to be superior or just gross incompetence is irreverent.
Fix your bug reporting process and use a panel of unbaised military experts outside of the company to make these decisions.
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Help me, please. Which source indicates that the stinger and mistral are used PID control?
Someone posted a photo of gaijin files themselves containing pid values for mistral and stinger but not one for igla. You can try searching on the forum.
It was me, here is the post: Why Gaijin is wrong about the Stinger (it should be 20g in game) - #44 by SpeclistMain
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It turns out that if the developers delete these values from the files, then missiles will lose PID control IRL. Case closed. It’s so simple.
The PID stuff is in my post above, mind you that while the guidanceAutoPilot for all missiles has PID, they’ve modeled the orientation (i.e. the rotating part of the missile for the Igla) to use Bang-Bang which causes the low G-overload issues. The Stinger and Mistral do not use Bang-Bang to control their stabilizers/fins, so they should not have such artificial reqAccelMax debuffs.
My man what I was saying is that by Gaijin’s own admission they use PID.
PID (proportional–integral–derivative) control and PNG ( proportional navigation guidance) is two different concepts. PNG is missile guidance law. PID (like bang-bang) is steering surface control method.
All manpads in game uses PNG. Igla uses bang-bang steering surface control method.
Simple question. Which source indicates that the stinger and mistral are used PID control?
Because if your source is dev files, then you must accept that their calculations are correct.
Your screenshot with mistral and stinger shows “GuidanceAutopilot” section, but in 9m39 screenshot you ignore this section. However it contains same not zero props.
(Responding to both quotes above) Yeah, which is why the Igla’s G overload is lower than the Stinger and Mistral, because they don’t have to use Bang-Bang for the fins.
No, I’m saying by their own admission the Stinger and Mistral use PID and not Bang-Bang for the fins, therefore their artificially low G-overload should not exist.
Their argument was:
- Igla uses Bang-Bang to control fins → G-overload is lower due to this
- Stinger and Mistral have similar fin shapes to Igla → They have the same G-overload because of this similarity
The problem:
- Igla uses Bang-Bang to control fins → G-overload is lower due to this
- Stinger and Mistral do not use Bang-Bang to control their fins → They do not have the same G-overload issues as Igla
- Stinger and Mistral have similar fin shapes to Igla → This does not matter because the Stinger and Mistral use a different method of control of the fins than the Igla
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Most idiotic reasoning I have ever seen stop “assuming” things that are obviously wrong
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I do not see it. Mistral, Stinger and Igla use approximately the same values in the “guidanceAutopilot” section. The fact that the first two use PID, and the last one does not, is your imagination.
No REAL sources on PID control for Stinger and Mistral.