As someone who enjoys playing more bombers than regular fighters I agree that we bombers need some love especially at lower br’s (3.-5.), there’s always a XP-50 lurking about…
Just buff the gunners again so they’re actually useful… I mean if we look into naval the AI gunners are crazy op, the bomber ones on the other hand… not doing a good job, since we have to control them manually everytime while focusing on a base, and using the bomb scope.
My point is that WT bombers are less durable this is correct, to a certain extent. HOWEVER. US aircraft with only .50 calls cannot fire each gun separately, each gun fires like a domino. Meaning if you pull that trigger once then 6 rounds will come out in total.
#Make them stronger so that i cook more H-6 suggestions…
The other issue is the playerbase which hates everything that might add a modicum of extra challenge even though it’d make the game vastly more authentic. Case in point when realshatter came out (and aircraft could actually take some damage) the forum was full of whine posts not to mention the Youtubers came out screaming about how apparently bad it was.
I can’t remember who it was but in the video his reasoning was “if I get behind someone it’s my reward to then get a quick kill”. These people won’t be satisfied until War Thunder becomes Call of Duty, just take a look at the outrage when APHE was about to get realistically nerfed. Instead didn’t it get a buff to an already massively broken round?
They should’ve just implemented the APHE nerf and if anything left realshatter as it was or mildly tweak it. The whiners won’t be satisfied until every gun can knock out a bomber or fighter in a tiny burst.
Easy to say they’re just crying, but even for a very good player, their carry potential was way down during that time. If you can’t rely on someone dying or being crippled when you get a good shot, it’s almost like you’re in an arcade game and trying to knock away at the enemy’s health bar before they finally go down.
The issue is what they want is what we have now and to be frank at times the playerbase can’t be trusted. Look at the APHE vote and again the Youtuber response for evidence. APHE is broken to the point that it’s practically braindead to use. Yet the players demanded it stayed because “aiming is hard”.
It’s the same with aircraft. Realshatter wasn’t perfect but it was considerably more accurate than what we have now. If we continue to drop historical accuracy War Thunder starts to lose its identity, it’s already on its way now what with aircraft flight models being dumbed down almost across the board and the previously mentioned APHE fiasco. You mention health bars but in continually buffing even the weakest armaments you’re becoming Call of Duty in the air.
In regards to players having to carry teams etc then simply put players need to learn to get better and adapt. Otherwise before long you’ll have auto aim etc… Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile.
Or they just don’t feel the need to change it? Why ruin the one low tier shell that works consistently.
Personally, I’d rather have a solid shot/APDS buff than an APHE nerf.
It works too consistently… that’s the problem. It’s a physics breaking round that is wickedly and unfairly overperforming for those on the receiving end. Getting killed with shots to the engine bay that magically sends shrapnel backwards into the crew compartment and decimates everyone is indefensible.
You say buff solid shot but a similar buff would be a round penetrating and shrapnel flooding the entire crew compartment. Somehow I feel many would immediately start screaming if that were the case (and rightly so) and yet somehow you defend it with APHE?
At this point why not remove internal damage modelling and just make the game an automatic one-hit kill with a successful penetration?
To go back to the original topic the same is happening/has happened with aircraft, Shvak’s are a weak cannon… Shvak’s were a weak cannon… the community stupidly complains that the game is accurate and now 1x Shvak can rip a wing off of a bomber in a single burst. People whinged when MG151’s got a rightful nerf… before the nerf they could literally dissect a bomber in a single round, you can find the test videos on Youtube.
War Thunder has gone from an authentic game to a hand holding broken mess and yet people wonder why the game was so much better a few years ago…
Understatement of the week, given that a good 20mm hit to a wing would turn it yellow for many guns.
Oneshots are satisfying and rewarding, and solid shot should be buffed instead. This was a pretty common opinion to read during the vote.
There’s no amount of “get better” that will make your guns actually do damage instead of, as I pointed above, where some aircraft just didn’t do damage; and regardless of how good you are you can’t get out of a 1vX scenario where you need to start dropping enemies before the horde of lower skill players overwhelms you IF you put several shots right into the wing root of a fighter and he keeps on flying like nothing ever happened.
For Shvaks and weaker cannons this is understandable. They were historically incredibly weak. One 20mm cannon round would do damage but the odds of it being catastrophic wouldn’t exactly be high. It’s for this reason that larger cannons or more cannons were introduced in reality to combat bombers. I’ve mentioned this before but some Russian sources claimed that 2x Shvak’s weren’t even that reliable for bringing down the 190F’s…
War Thunder’s damage model before realshatter was catastrophically bad, literally 1 MG151 round would cut a bomber’s wing off or detonate a fighter.
It wasn’t common at all, in fact the vote to fix APHE was winning until a suspicious final moment during the voting stage…
One shot’s are fun until you’re the guy on the other end of it or you get a kill that you know you didn’t deserve. Lets ask Gaijin to make AP rounds automatically 1 shot everything it penetrates and then observe how the community screams “this isn’t accurate!!!”… whilst they’re magical death orbing everything they face.
Yes there is, you learn to hold guns on target for just slightly longer. Damage is still being done to the target even with snapshots making a kill easier. You mention some aircraft just didn’t do damage but for fun I drag the C.202 into tier IV battles in sim and even with its piddly armament kills were perfectly achievable in one sustained burst. The only time I noticed that aircraft felt stronger was in quick snapshots with smaller calibre rounds but it’d still rip flaps off etc. It was almost perfect.
If your concern is being a better player and getting swarmed the issue isn’t the guns but your team mates. To insist on buffing weapons unrealistically because your team is dreadful is an awful proposition.
Also you mention several shots but several shots from a cannon even in realshatter would decimate that wing even if it doesn’t shear off.
There is catastrophic, and then there is “wing root slightly yellow”. Any 20mm HE shell will do more than that IRL. And I wasn’t even talking about ShVAKs, as this was during the initial stage of RealShatter when only the AN/M3 was affected.
Good thing I’m not talking about bombers then.
I would take any russian info with a huge grain of salt since there are also russian sources saying to not turn fight the Fw190As at any cost due to their superiority in that.
Yes, the RU playerbase woke up and didn’t like what they saw.
If I die, I made a mistake or got outplayed.
The APHE rework kept things largely the same, so I don’t know what your point here is exactly. And how exactly is nerfing APHE going to make any of the solid shot shells more effective?
This guy when he learns what deflection and stall shots are
C.202’s guns weren’t affected by realshatter, and AFAIK still aren’t like the MG151/15 and Ho-103, and presumably the other explosive HMGs around this size.
You can control one but not the other. Nobody in this game enjoys getting a perfectly good shot onto an enemy fighter, hitting them, and the game going “you don’t get to do damage bro”.
Funny you say that because I have very clear memories of the exact opposite being true. As in, I’m sitting behind someone in a single engine fighter, dumping dozens of 20mm shells into their wings and tail, only for them to keep flying perfectly fine.
What your thoughts on damages to flight surfaces and aircraft skin (on the wings lets say) where bullet holes result in a pressure differential that tears the wing off?
Depends on where the 20mm HE hit. You can see plenty of guncam footage with 20mm explosions on fighter wings etc and it’s incredibly rare that it falls off like it does and did in game. The AN/M2’s also needed a historical nerf as they were wickedly overpowered being just as bad as the MG151 from back in the day.
This thread is mainly about bombers. But even in regards to fighters then we both know that aircraft such as the P47, FW-190 and even the C.202 were considered very tough aircraft that were able to withstand at least some damage before going down. How do they feel in War Thunder?
Better yet I’ll answer that for you. C.202 vs P-47, Sim battles, my crap aim.
You’re telling me this is more of a representation of reality than Realshatter was? There’s a P-40 in there as well… yet another aircraft regarded for being rugged. I have another video too with 2xBreda’s folding IL2’s in half in one pass with my once again terrible aim if it helps to prove the point.
Weapon damage is silly across the board. With Realshatter a 109 would still kill a B-17 but you’d at least see it taking battle damage like in reality before something vital fell off. Not folding like they do now.
Depends on what they were flying at the time as well. I wouldn’t want to fight a 190 in a turn fight in a LaGG-3 or maybe even an La-5. It’s more than just pilot anecdotes about the Shvak, it was widely known as anaemic and that was even with two in the nose.
In regards to aircraft toughness it was U.S and British pilots that noted that the 190A was a tough little bird to bring down. In War thunder it’s eviscerated like any other aircraft.
APHE users screamed against a realistic APHE nerf as it means they can’t unfairly one-click tanks.
Who couldn’t see that coming?
The APHE rework was making the round work closer to reality, damage in a cone that travels along the projectiles path that eradicates the unfair ball of death. Realistically correcting APHE makes AP rounds far more competitive as they have always had to obey by the laws of physics, APHE was not and was clearly the unfairly superior round because of it. With the change APHE would still one-shot tanks with good aim but you’ll be potentially punished for bad aim… the way it should be.
It’d make AP only tanks far more viable options and be far more authentic gameplay wise. It’d be a far more even playing field.
This guy when he seems to forget that planes still take damage if they aren’t destroyed, and once again this is an air combat game and not a twitch shooter. Cannons still murdered things pretty damn effectively.
This guy seems to support this more than an accurate damage model:
Nobody also enjoys getting shredded by what can be literally 1 round in a totally unrealistic and unfair fashion, whether it be fighter pilots or bombers. I know this is anecdotal but I’ve also never had a perfectly good shot on an enemy and not done any damage barring when I’ve had lag issues or when an AP round could’ve pierced a clean hole through a wing or fuselage and my aim has been typically crap.
You’re asking once again for overpowered weapon damage to make up for skill issues from your team or yourself (no insult intended we all have moments).
Sounds more like lag than anything. I’ve had zero trouble with downing enemy fighters or critically damaging them to them point they crash or they’re easy to finish off with a follow up burst. Which again is seen quite a lot in pilot memoirs with cannon armed aircraft, there’s plenty of RAF quotes of “strikes to the wing, so I gave him another burst”.
Now that i think about it, rounds should have some duds in war thunder, itd be a rare event, like you 20mm buttel on impact didnt explode on impact, or 13 mm