M1A2 SEP V2 doesnt have better LFP armour

ayeflyingcowboy · December 13, 2023, 3:20pm

Instantly replied with… Absolutely nothing. Duncan Hayward didn’t know the Abrams had FLIR in 2005, I sure as hell hope he learned a bit before making more statements.

Fine then, here is a report from the Australian government on it not having DU armour:

They will not include any elements of depleted uranium armour but will be the best protected fighting vehicles in the world.

There are 2 legitimate acronyms for BRL, being the Ballistic Research Laboratory

There you go, you figured it out, BRL = Ballistic Research Laboratory i.e. BRL-1 = Ballistic Research Laboratory generation 1 armour package, likewise improved FMS armour = Improved Foreign military sales armour package, a package that is separate and used specifically for FMS tanks and encompassed a few different armour packages i.e. the original, an improved and an advanced, as noted by what Viktor has shared with us.

Your idea was that FMS cannot be used in conjunction with armour package because it is a program for something else, BRL contradicts this notion.

Yes, as I said about 3 times now, it was made to reject the health limitations that excluded HAP from export. The entire purpose of it is to dispell any health concerns that had prohibited DU applications in foreign trade.

Nothing in either that document or the FONSI is talking about export, there is 0 evidence that this is the case, it is only for revaluating the environmental and health affects of DU because of the newly developed armour package which would have been HAP-3…

In 1996, a design change to the armor package was made by the Army and cut-in to production by General Dynamics Land Systems (GDLS) via Change Request XMPP-2083 in Oct 96 and effective with Job #1 M1A2 Phase II AUT. The purpose of this revision to the Environmental Assessment (EA) is to assess the environmental impact of the change from the original DU armor design to this modified design.

Once again it has nothing to do with it being for export.

Stormwolf7 · December 13, 2023, 3:21pm

It’s being used interchangeably… (not a best practice.)

All EAP are FMS. Not all FMS are EAP.

Just like DU Armor and Heavy Armor have been used interchangeably. (By me as well once or twice, also not a best practice.)

All DU Armor is Heavy Armor. Not all Heavy Armor is DU Armor.

(To break it down Barney Style: All Main Battle Tanks are tracked vehicles. Not all Tracked Vehicles are Main Battle Tanks.)

Victor_eu · December 13, 2023, 3:32pm

Also the regular FMS and the improved FMS can most likely be identified by the letter in the serial number, the regular E is the regular FMS (Saudi Arabia M1A2 in the photo), and the better and newer varieties are the E with a dash. ( Polish M1A1FEP ). Americans, of course, have the letters U and M, and Australia - A. I wonder what the Ukrainian M1A1SA have.

Victor_eu · December 13, 2023, 3:55pm

interesting document about SEPv3, the armor weighs a lot, and the structure of the hull and armor is no less than the turret. ( data in short tones )

ayeflyingcowboy · December 13, 2023, 4:03pm

Interesting, shame I can’t find anything on the identification meanings, but yea I would assume E is just export variant and the E with the dash is the improved one.

In regards to the U and M for the US, I believe one of them indicated it was DU, but I could be wrong.

Cool photos that compares the SEPv2 (top) and SEPv3s turrets:

Victor_eu · December 13, 2023, 4:07pm

obraz_2023-12-13_170517963
U - Heavy armor package
M - NEA/NGAP
interesting is that there are M1A2SEPv2 and M1A1SA that have U or M letter, it’s possible that the ones with M use newer armour technology that may have something to do with SEPv3

ayeflyingcowboy · December 13, 2023, 4:12pm

Yea the M1A2 turrets are very heavy:

But yea I originally thought that the graph you shared proved the M1A2s didn’t get improved armour as the weight difference from the M1A2 to SEPs wasn’t that different, and then remembered they had the weight reduction program:

Which is interesting because from a new datamine the titanium was actually implemented for the turret top and commander viewport:

M1A2 SEP, M1A2 SEP V2 : Turret Top, Commander Viewport : RHA → Titanium Alloy

Victor_eu · December 13, 2023, 4:15pm

you can see it here, the chart earlier shows that the mass of the M1A2SEPv2 was increasing, it may have something to do with better armor.

Thug Shaker Actual · December 13, 2023, 4:16pm

91 tons!???

ayeflyingcowboy · December 13, 2023, 4:17pm

U - Heavy armor package
M - NEA/NGAP
interesting is that there are M1A2SEPv2 and M1A1SA that have U or M letter, it’s possible that the ones with M use newer armour technology that may have something to do with SEPv3

Ah yep, thought that was the case, although the M serial number identifier is definitely odd, as from the photo above you can see the SEPv3s turret cheeks have become longer from more armour being added.

Victor_eu · December 13, 2023, 4:17pm

about 82,5 metric tons

Thug Shaker Actual · December 13, 2023, 4:18pm

Thank you lol

ayeflyingcowboy · December 13, 2023, 4:22pm

Yea they are getting too heavy, which is one of the reasons they cancelled the SEPv4 program and are now moving onto the M1E3 (with the E meaning engineering) i.e. the US will at some point finally get an M1A3.

Victor_eu · December 13, 2023, 4:23pm

yes, M1A2SEPv3 received thicker special armor modules and has NGAP/NEA armor and the letter M. SEPv2 does not have such thick modules and I think that those with the letter M have something better than the well-known HAP-3 but it does not necessarily have to be NGAP /NEA it’s possible that there is something in between that there is little information about.

hienapunk · December 13, 2023, 4:52pm

The russia mains are here because theyve realized theres a real chance we might be successful in finallly getting real Abrams.

SXTREME · December 13, 2023, 5:01pm

The absolute sweat some people are having at the mere possibility of having to AIM on their russian vehicles.

Stormwolf7 · December 13, 2023, 5:03pm

Parish the thought!

It must be pretty annoying knowing that the best round your country has in service (yes, even the 3BM59) would have to hunt for weakspots on a tank upgraded 10+ years before your round was invented.
(When they can’t have their round from 20 years ago because it would invalidate your current armor scheme…)

Mackerel33295 · December 13, 2023, 5:04pm

So. What if the eventual dev blog on the Abrams hull goes “We think it might have gotten it, but we aren’t going to put it in game because DU insert is OP”

What do we do then? I am really worried.

Stormwolf7 · December 13, 2023, 5:09pm

That’s why I’m just playing my occasional game or two once a week to maintain forum posting rights, but I’m not giving a crap about the game until that’s decided.

hienapunk · December 13, 2023, 5:11pm

We mass downvote them on steam and then leave.