Technically seen the 6.0 He 162 A-2 is actually the better plane - you need a similar play style to make it work, the MG 151s are actually better to use and the flight performance is almost identical - whilst the 162 can actually turnfight to a certain degree - the 262 is not capable of that.
…and the F8F will stay at 4.7 (in Air RB) with the fixed rudder thx to the habit of US players to use their climb and speed performance to head-on the first marker they see. This, ofc, only when they don’t bomb bases 😂
All of these planes are pretty inferior to the ME262.
Strikemaster has good energy retention but a poor engine and abysmal guns (worst at the br btw)
Yak15 has prop turning and jet top speed, but poor acceleration and very low ammo count
P59A i have heard is decent, but it cant compete with any other jet/super prop. There is a reason its 5.7 and never entered service
HE162 I have heard is also poor, due to its acceleration and climbrate
Have in mind i was (mainly) replying to this quote from another player:
In order to keep the discussion on topic i refuse to reply in detail regarding the rest of your comments - except this one:
That does not change anything - i use from time to time the 6.7 262 A-2a with airspawn (it has just 2 instead of 4 MK 108s).
The issue is that the MM kills thIs BR range. So having from time to time a 6.0 to 7.0 match in a 6.7 Me 262 A-1a does not change anything - you are still forced to go for your 7.0 enemies as primary target as they outperform you.
Even if you are lucky and meet just 2 A2D-1s and two F-84s with air spawn you have to wait for their mistakes and to go for them first - otherwise you lose.
Absolute nonsense, there is not a single allied jet implemented in wt which could compete with the 262 A-1a. The YP-80A and the early Meteor F Mk 3 with the weaker engine (wt has the post WW 2 late version implemented) were inferior.
Just wanted to mention: When the F Mk.3 upgraded to Derwent Engines it outmatched the 262. And that was before Germany’s surrender too. The only 7.3 jets that can compete with Sabers and Mig-15s are the Sea Meteor (Has the acceleration but poor top speed due to low IAS limit) and the Su-11 which has no business being a 7.3 jet. Honestly everything in 7.7 and up should move 0.3 BR up, the Sea Meteor and Su-11 should both move to 7.7 and the Me-262s can stay where they are. The only 262 that is finally where it belongs in the Me-262 C2b which moved down from 8.0.
I disagree - you can’t prove that any upgraded F Mk 3 saw service or combat. I change my mind if you can provide evidence for that.
In addition: The sole determinating factors for early jet irl combat were critical and tactical Mach numbers - in both categories even the upgraded Meteor F MK 3 was clearly inferior - turn abilities played zero role irl.
The Sea Meteors were 2 prototypes from 1948 with engines with 70% more thrust than the F MK I Meteor and the F MK III early. The low IAS limit shows the inferiority of the underlying air frame quite impressive.
The Su-11 exists as copy / upgrade of the Su-9 based on captured 262 A-1as - just like the Sea Meteor a pure gift from gaijin.
This won’t change anything:
The 1946 F-80 A-5 or the the F3D or the F-89 or F-84 …are still at 7.0 outperforming the 262 A-1a at its own BR. Even a good flown A2D-1 gets you in serious troubles as you can’t risk a head-on.
Part of the mess is the 9.3 US F-104. Instead of pushing it up they decided to push a hell of Korean War jets low. That’s why you see even in the 6.7 262 A-2a mostly uptiers to BR 7.3-7.7 matches.
they are not used for zombing due to poor payload, so we can safely rule out zombing as being the reason why they do perform way they do.
They seem to do poorly in A2A role, with postiive KD being found only on A-1a, A-2a and C-2b.
A-1a and A-2A are understandable as they sit at the lowest BR of 7.0 and 6.7 respectively. But C-2b sits at the highest BR of all 262s of 7.7, yet it has better A2A KD than the 7.3 variants - its also the least played variant.
Rather than moving them down, i would like to see some decompression to happen. Mk108s combined with rather specific playstyle arent really cutting it against MiG-15/17s and Sabres.
…and imho misleading like hell. At least when the only source we have is unable to distinguish between Ground RB and Air RB.
You might agree that Ground RB is due to the absence of markers and the even lower average pilot skill compared to Air RB a different game - concentrated on low altitude fights with manual dot spotting, usually way less enemies airborne and main opponents being enemy strike fighters or props with maximum payload.
If you compare A2A and A2G kills it is imho obvious that most of the 262s are used in Ground RB and underperform as a fighter in Air RB.
Mhm - a fighter performs poorly as a fighter.
I quote myself from the a.m. parallel thread:
And this is a result of the different game play in Air RB:
ok So the Me-262 basically just gonna outrun anyone who try to catch it not a chance anyone is going to catch it but the HE 162 is much slower and some energy fighter are avaliable to catch it atleast.
The He 162 is not “much slower” - we talk about 30 kmph top speed difference.
There is no prop able to catch a properly flown He 162 - all you have to do is to stay above 700 kmph and keep a minimum alt of 2.5 - 3 km in order to use the main advantage of jets vs props: Superior high speed acceleration and top speed at sea level. Even if enemies with very high rip speeds (=more than 900 kmph) dive from low earth orbit on you - they lose way too much energy in this process and lose speed when they level out. Situational awareness is the key to survive.
The ability to outrun your enemies has nothing to do with your ability to kill slower enemies. Just look at A6Ms - they are able to fight way faster enemies.
The ability to catch a jet in a prop depends on the jet pilot - if he makes no mistakes: See #2. And this has nothing to do with being an “energy fighter” - the main question when diving with a prop on a jet is always “am i able to catch him before my energy surplus runs out” and/or “how long can i keep the jet in my effective gun range”.
No idea if this is your 1st,2nd or 3rd account - but i strongly recommend to actually fly a 262 or 162 in Air RB. Sideclimb to 4 km, keep your speed always above 700 kmph, use 98% throttle to avoid engine overheating and select 22 minutes of fuel to avoid running out of fuel (22 minutes last for a full 25 min match) and gain some experience with fighting props in a German jet.
The things is it take some time for early jet to accelerate and once they try to dogfight they loose there energy fast and in my experince of killing it. I have used the Soviet I-225 it perform the best at attitude above 6000m top speed of over 728km/h and something like the higher tier Spitfire are avaliable to fly even faster. or Like the Do-335 which can reach up to 789km/h at Br of only 5.7 or the A2d-1 which is also an Propeller plane that can reach 800km/h Faster then the He-162… So there is propeller aircraft that can kill the He-162 it is very slow that why it put in this BR and pretty much it always dies because the entire team diving on him. On the other hand the Me-262 will outrun all this fighters.
Try to catch a 162 with a rip speed of 1.040 kmph IAS with the USSR crap I-225 (rip speed 820) or the highest BR Spit with 875 kmph IAS. Even the 1950 turboprop A2D-1 prototypes have a rip speed of 875 kmph IAS…
Btw: Comparisons with 335s are the opposite of a smart argument, they are always on your team.
Edit: Your reply to this post shows that you continue with your theoretical view on this topic. Therefore i do not see the necessity to continue with this exchange. Thx for understanding.
ARB is basically a Civil war never really have a proper battle and those who played at arcade are gonna meet it even more. The He-162 also looses it energy very very fast the best tatic it could use is Boom and zoom if it try to dogfight a fighter it basically not going to win. Even with such a Rip speed your gonna need to climb very high and continue diving down those aircraft may not have a high Rip speed they basically can slowly decent while the ME 262 loose all it energy letting the enmey slowly catching up once again.
So your solution to 7.0-8.0 being horribly compressed is to make superprops horribly compressed? What is an LF mk9 meant to do against a 262? The solution isn’t dropping late war jets, its upping top tier to 15.0+ and adjusting jet br’s accordingly so flareless supersonics don’t have to face all aspects
Try to read - if a plane is not competitive at its BR it needs a lower BR. The 262 A-1a is not competitive at 7.0, that’s why a they need a loower BR.
The LF Mk IX has a way better fighting chance vs a 262 than a 5.3 A6M5 Ko facing a P-51 H-5 in a full uptier. Even an average US pilot will spray you down (preferred from >1.2 km) and get a lucky hit with a single AP-IT shell - whilst the MK 108 shells of a 262 arrive at their designated target in 1-2 working days - or self-destruct after 800 meters at very high speed.
First of all there are just 2 WW 2 fighter jets implemented. If you would have flown the 162 and 262 you would have noticed that the speed advantage becomes irrelevant if you can’t bring guns on target.
The current solution is even worse - 1944 tech faces Korean War hardware.
Have in mind that the context matters. The player i was answering to has zero clue about the concept of draining energy from props whilst fly a jet.
With an altitude safe net of 2-3 km (whilst flying with 700 kmph+) no diving prop can catch you as all you have to to do is to dive slightly and increase your speed; the prop loses the majority of his energy advantage in the dive itself and is way slower at low alt.
The reality is that most of the guys here are scared to fight a jet which needs way more skill to make it work than any kind of late or postwar prop.
My example with the 162 was aimed to show that a jet with similar flight performance sits at 6.0 and nobody cares.
