Leopard 2A4 missing historical round

Leopard 2a4’s armor and dm23 is trash at 10.3 (it’s 2’nd worse mbt at this BR, the worst is M1 Abrams with even worse round)
Even 9.0 - which can’t face it - can lol pen ufp from 2km+. Everything around 10.3 BR can pen it even easier.
considering that 10.0 is perma uptiered to 11.0 DM23 is useless and have to pixel shot weakspots when 90% frontal area is lol pened xd

that gives me these types of vibes

11.7 cant stop 9.0 rounds

The thread is about the 2A4 which competes with the T-80B, not the U or BVM. Anyway, yes the T-80B will out-accelerate it in a straight line, the 2A4 has over three times (!) the reverse speed which is super important for surviving gun damage. And onto survivability, the 2A4 gets a blowout panel ammo rack (I never bring more than 15 rounds to keep the hull empty) and 4 crew. Also it doesn’t have the laughable TNT filled fuel tanks the T-80B seems to have. I’ve been playing a lot of the T-80B and STRV 121 (2A4 in Swede tree) lately and generally it’s very rare to survive a shot that penetrates the T-80B, but the 2A4 generally only loses either it’s gun/gunner or it’s engine/driver in the first hit, which gives you options for surviving the encounter.

Here’s a funny clip, I shoot a 2A4 in what I thought was a decent location for a one-shot, admittedly I could have hit higher but I always worry about hitting the fuel tank and having my spall disappear, and anyways the 2A4 uses it’s commader override (something Soviets don’t get until 11.3) and kills me not with his round, but with his sabot petals from the front

I forget what sabot petals pen but it’s not more than 50mm

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didnt expect the metal thingi to pen the driver port lmao

well right now the game feels wonky? in general, i had leopards eat 3bm60 and the next one same spot just explodes…
same for t90m and friends

  • if you had hit him a bit more right you would have killed gunner and commander but that is a what if thing… or just aim for breach bla bla bla we all know how this game is

i would love to make some new clips with shadow play but it doesn’t seems to work ( no idea why)

reverse gear doesn’t help you at all with the super small map in the time where you repair the opponent is already at the spawm. dm23 is a joke, weakspot hit vs hit something and you are broken. Even with a T72A 9.3 (without reactive armor) !!! you have to hit weakspots in the turret .

This should literally get pinned on this forum because I see countless people totally ignoring all these glaring issues and jumping straight to ammo while absolutely freaking out, further fueling hilariously stupid bias tinfoil hat theories.


If you want A4 to go to 10.7, you can ask for that, There are 2 western MBT tanks in 10.3, which have DM33 or similar shell L26, their armor is worse than A4

DM33 and 10.7 would be good both for the vehicle and to help decompress 9.3-10.3

TURMS is a sidegrade to T-72B, not a direct upgrade.
It has worse mobility than T-72B, worse armour, but better sights and ability to use thermals.
T-72B 1989 is also questionable, with T-90S being better in sights, mobility, access to thermals while being same BR by your balance choices.

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All i see are DESIGN CHOICES conform USSR doctrine:

  • keep it low as possible
  • with strong frontal armor
  • stab

Leo2 and T-80BV (since you get the K1 upgrade) are both from 1985.

Leo2 hull is butter, sides are butter, only turret cheeks are strong, mobility is good.
Still misses generative steering like many other Western MBT’s

During the EVENT in GFAB i was confronted with the whole Russian Horde of vehicles and they are NOT lacking in combat effectiveness. Smart players work around these “weaknesses” , same goes for any other nation, work around them.

But having a stronger rounds most definitely helps with killing faster and more efficiently. Just look at the new object 289 i got shot trough turret cheek in my M1, normally this doesn’t happen with the other rounds it faces.

3BM42 is available from the 2S25 at BR 9.3, Germany only catches up and overtakes at br 11.7 with DM53. M1 is stuck with M774, while M833 could be implemented. This round is older then 3BM42 and DM33.

And if the Leo’s with DM33 go up to 10.7 so be it. For me up-tier everything with 3BM42 or better to 10.7, to decompress the shit out of the trees, 9.0-3 are unplayable with al the 3rd gen MBT (premiums) running around. maybe increase ceiling to 12.0 or more.

And work down the tree to give all MBT a KE stock round, not this CE stock crap.

It does not.


All spaded vehicles on Expert 150 crews tested on identical flat medium terrain.

Armor doesn’t matter much when you’ve got extremely solid mobility, firepower, gun handling and decent survivability.


I’d rather the Leopard 2A4 C technologie with DM33 gets added, Germany after all these years still does not have an IPM1/M1A1/T-80UM2/T-90A counterpart.

We do not have the T-80BV in War Thunder, it’s a seperate vehicle with different armor.

Just like Soviet/Russian MBTs, regenerative steering goes all the way back to the IS-series of heavy tanks to a limited degree, we should’ve had regenerative steering in War Thunder since 2014.

M1 doesn’t need M833, it’s already among the best performing 10.3’s.


This makes no sense.
First of all, 80B already has K-1 installed…
Second of all, you basically want to keep relative difference between 2A4 and TURMS while giving the former much stronger round that is capable of easily going through latter’s hull armor, thus negating one of it’s biggest advantages.

If you want real decompression, advocate for BRs beyond 11.7.


Leopard 2A4 facing 3BM60 on regular isnt exactly balanced.

Thats exactly what I think, btw where is the link of this late leo2?

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You do realize your shell is only a single variable in a pool of probably dozen others that will determine the vehicle’s effectiveness, right ?
People hard-focusing on a single variable while completely ignoring other important variables is the reason threads like these are made.

“Oh look, tank X has a really powerful round for it’s BR, so I think it’s contemporaries should get their shells buffed as well. Who cares if tank X has plethora of disadvantages, it simply can’t be the best in literally any segment.”

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No, why would i? /s

Its exactly because im looking at the idea of 2A4 at 10.7 as a whole to know its bad idea, the possibility of facing 3BM60 is just the most prevalent issue.

At 10.7 there would be no lineup, forcing olayers to uptier 10.0 to 10.3 tanks into games where they can face 11.7.

And current 11.7 tanks are whole another level.

This is why another poster suggested to add a new 2A4 to the game with better shell/armor and leave the current one where it is.
Obviously, other vehicles should be added as well to create 10.7/11.0 lineup.

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I wasnt responding to him tho.

I was responding to person suggesting 2A4 should get DM33 and moved to 10.7, which would be massive nerf.

i dont think that you played the Leo 2A4 enough. i personally love it and think its one of the best MBTs at 10.3. its round is good I never had any problems with it unless I’m facing the bullshit T-80 armour that randomly bounces perfectly placed shells