Tbf, I would probably prefer the Leo 1A4 instead of the A3. The A4 could bring thermals wich the A3 doesn’t. This doesn’t mean, that a A3 can’t be added. It may could be a premium tank for GJ to make more money without anyone complaining :D
The 1A4 would definitely be a higher br than the 1A3. The main point of the 1A3 would be to give Germany a much-needed stabilized 8.3 MBT to compete with the M60A1, T-55A, Vickers Mk 3, etc.
if anything the 1A4 would make more sense as a premium as it would be 8.7 alongside the existing A1A1
Leopard 1 A4 does not feature a thermal imager.
The sole differences to Leopard 1 A3 are the use of EMES12A1over TEM-2A, which is a sole stereoscopic rangefinder, compared to TEM-2A, which has both coincidence and stereoscopic rangefinding modes.
In addition, wheras TEM-2A has fixed 16x magnification, EMES12A1 has 8x to 16x magnification.
(May also not matter because gaijin made TEM-2A 8x-15.9x ingame anyway, likely by combining the 8x magnification of TZF-1A auxiliary sight and the 16x magnification of TEM-2A)
The other difference that would matter in-game is Leopard 1 A4 having PERI R12, which is fully stabilized and has 2x-8x magnification, wheras A3 uses TRP-2A which is unstabilized with 4x-20x magnification.
Leopard 1 A4 also used FLER-H fire control computer irl, which ingame wouldnt matter though.
Its literally the exact same but with a stabilized commander-sight (same one as on Leo 2K) and 8x-16x magnification over what should be fixed 16x magnification (but is 8x-15.9x ingame anyway)
I dont see a higher BR being justified for it tbh
If you want to get a rough idea of how it’d perform, think of a Leopard A1A1 but welded turret (or in other words: OF-40 Mk.2 but worse because no LRF, and lower traverse/elevation speeds)
we need a leo model at 8.3 this could work if it only has DM13 germany could have a proper 8.3 MBT
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Ammunition selection, mostly, because the later date of introduction ('74-'76 vs '73) would probably give it DM23 ('78). Plus, isn’t the FCS linked to the EMES-12A1, and would automatically range the gun? I forget what vehicle it is, but I believe there’s already some tank in-game with a stereoscopic rangefinder that auto-adjusts range as if it were a LRF for this same reason.
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This should already be the case for all Leopards with TEM-2A, as the gunner already adjusts the distance during the rangefinding process (in stereoscopic mode).
Leopard 1 A4 differs to A3 by having FLER-H, which automatically applies lead after measuring the distance based on the movement of the gunner and continues said movement after a brief period; This allows the gunner to keep his crosshair on the target without having to manually lead himself,as said lead is calculated by FLER-H.
(Basically, like M1 Abrams, Leopard 2, etc. just with the difference that A4 doesnt have a independent LOS, nor a laser-rangefinder.)
These articles here explain it pretty well (use site-translation if you need to ig):
Leo 1 A2 (also applies to every other one except A4 and A5 minus the stabilizer in some cases):
https://kotsch88.de/f_leopard1.htm
Leo 1 A4:
https://kotsch88.de/f_leopard1a4.htm
Imo they should just add Leopard 1 A3 as a ‘lower-br option’ with DM 13 at 8.3 (though this might still be too low, but then again the entire BR range is compressed to incomprehensible levels, so perhaps something like Leopard 1 A2 or 1 A1 [not 1 A1A1] would be better options for that) and A4 at the same BR as A1A1 with DM 23.
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Since I was doing ““some”” (beyond any reasonable level) research on EXF 8x8 Radkampfwagen 90’s turret - and as such Leopard 1 A3, 1 A4 etc., I figured I might aswell add some historical material to this suggestion.
I am working on one for the Leopard 1 A4 aswell, but idk for how long I’ll procrastinate finishing it.
Regardless, I hope that these materials here help or are, at the very least, somewhat interesting.
Production of Leopard 1 A3 turrets (1973)
Leopard 1A3 - Armies & Weapons - No 47 - Oct 1978
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100% agreement here. Folder the 1A4 under the 1A3, and put the 1A1A1 in a folder with the 1A0 or the 1A5. There’d also be room foldered under the 1A0 for the 1A1 and/or 1A2
As a non-German tank enthusiast how much will this differ from the Leopard 1A2 in the Italian tree currently? As that already shares a BR with the German Leopard 1.
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The Leopard 1 and Italian 1A2 are both unstabilized (German 1A2s were stabilized but Italy didn’t include the stabilizer in their license-produced ones)
The turret is also different, its line-of-sight protection is the same but the effective protection is slightly better
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Thanks! Yeah, stab alone is easily worth 0.3 higher.
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not same, "tank in-game with a stereoscopic rangefinder that auto-adjusts range as if it were a LRF"is the 2AV PT-16/T-14 which has EMES-13 FCS,EMES-13 has fully automated optical ranging capabilities,while the EMES-12 merely let the milliradian follows the manual rangefinding of the gunner, like previous models.
PT 16 / PT 14mod. is not a AV (Austere Version) Prototype.
It’s based on a first generation prototype hull and ‘Leopard 2 Prototype’ turret; In this case getting the unique turret-designation “PT”, differing from all other first generation prototype turrets which have the “T” designation.
It’s turret was designed based on the removal of the requirement to make the developments be integratable into Leopard 1 (A3/4) turrets and thereby featured a new structure/layout, designed to integrate the new composite-armour, the EMES13 optical [correlation-] rangefinder with short-measurement base, hydraulic equipment (pumps, reservoirs, etc.) fully separated from the crew-compartment aswell as a separated ammunition-bunker in the turret-bustle.
Ref.: (among others, the same is listed in various books on Leopard 2) WTS Koblenz, Infocard
Anyway, on both TEM-2A (Leo 1 to A3) and EMES12A1 (Leo 1 A4) the range is continously adjusted during the ranging process in the stereoscopic mode, where a marker is essentially moved above the target.
Once this is done, the gunner can, after re-enabling the crosshair-display, or immediately if he’s skilled enough to adjust the range/do the entire rangefinding process without hiding the crosshair.
As moving the measurement mark/reticle via the foot-pedal and/or knobs already adjusts the range, the gunner no longer has to manually enter the distance afterwards, which is however what is required ingame currently.
On PT 16 / PT 14mod. the rangefinding-time is already much shorter than on any other optical rangefinder (which is fine, as it operates automatically, without the gunner having to manually move a measurement/distance mark) while also automatically applying the distance.
The latter, as said, should also be the case for TEM-2A and EMES12A1 (if Leo 1 A4 is added), however the rangefinding process should ofc still take roughly as long as it does now.
+1 A good competition for other 8.3 stabilized Medium Tanks. Would fit perfectly under the Leopard 1 and should get a camo net modification aswell.
The German tank tech tree does lack the various leopard 1s. If you include the premium and the 2K there are 5, which the 2K is a different column instead of after the 1A5 and before the leopard 2. I would suggest, lower the leopard 1 to 7.7 or 7.8, lower the 1A1 to 8.0 (rank 5) as underneath the Leopard 1 (stack/group them, if believed to be a better option). Add the Leopard 1A3 with the night optics and angular turret in place of the 1A1 w the 1A5. The 1A3 should be equipped w the HESH, HEAT, APFSDS (DM23 / modification research) and HE as well. Despite the DM23 being introduced/produced in 1978 and fielded with the 1A4 but primarily ment for the 1A5, it still received it since it’s a 105mm round. This would close or shrink the gap between the end of rank 5 into rank 6. The idea should be more or less similar to the M60 line up if you think about it in the US tree and should keep it simple even visually.
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+1 would become a excellent MBT in game though you wont be tanking anything.
+1 to Cold War German Grunts