KH-38ML is too op, busting Ground RB

Just wanted to inform you that SPAA range is around 10 km and rus players now starting to mass spawn Su-25SM3 to lolkill any opposing team with this 40km range KH-38ML. They spawn far out and immeadetly lock + fire on two ground targets with no opportunity to repel the strike.

Its a massive imbalance. Its also strange that this impossible to counter plane just to 11.7 BR and not air max BR. Its always several players doing that and in a blink of an eye the whole team is gone. All open maps especially unplayable!

Why did you include a 40 km range weapon? Not that its needed, most fire from around 15-20 km where the air spawn point is… Farthest SAM goes around 10km? Thats busting game mechanics… Its never good to allow MMO games to get that much out of balance.

12 Likes

Russia suffers, F-16 too OP, nerf Ariete

9 Likes

Its literally absurd how Russia keeps getting new tech tree stuff for Top Tier every update, while other nations suffer.

5 Likes

My SPAA truck has just 20km radar range, when they turn around after spawn they dont even appear on radar screen and suddenly half your team ceased to exist with without warning… Who is repsonsible for these game mechanics? Whats the intent?

They outrange both. Detection capability and SAM range by a large margin. You could ignore that as long just few Su-25 spawned. But now its getting abused in numbers. If 3 or 4 spawn this thing your entire team is gone.

1 Like

Do you have any top tier fighters? One fighter on CAP can counter these strikers easily with SARH missiles and longer ranged IR missiles without even getting to range of the striker’s all aspect IR missiles. Combined arms problem solved by a combined arms solution. Similarly to how below 7.7 (radar guided SPAA) fighters are more effective against planes than SPAA are.

It takes a whole seperate effort to reach top tier air (or helis) to get planes with these ground attack weapons and they are rewarded for their seperate efforts by being able to leverage the strengths of those vehicles they earned. Not that I am advocating for imbalances, but the Su-25SM3 is incredible easy to destroy for any fighter at 11.3+ carrying SARH missiles. I understand it can be frustrating playing with a ground focus, but trying to fight plane to SPAA in a headon fight is just bad tactics on the SPAA side. Ambush tactics and smart engagement conditions make SPAA much more effective than trying to outrange guided munitions.

3 Likes

Your opinion doesn’t make sense, to spawn a fighter requires more points equipping with good missiles, if you gotta get a fighter just to kill ONE bomber is quite absurd, if a player invest his time to reach top tier just to get killed by a jet +15km away that his SPAA cannot reach or take down + the SU-25SM3 shouldn’t even be in the game yet, adding it specially for Russia is confusing and make people claim BIAS once again.

Every nation should get equivalent SPAA before adding such a jet, USA don’t even have a TOP TIER SPAA for years now, ADATS cant do absolutely nothing, lets not mention other nations with super bad SPAAs that cannot reach even half of what the SU-25SM3 can reach + most nations see the missiles coming straight to them while they can just sit there and wait for their death, even if u drive away the missile can just blow up next to u and you’re done.

1 Like

https://new.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1cl87du/su25sm3_deserves_to_be_deleted/

It’s a russiasn game at the end… they need to make the stuff

1 Like

You don’t just kill one bomber. You defend the skies from all other aircraft, not just a single one. Air superiority rules. If fighters control the airspace, strikers are not safe enough to properly do their job unhindered. CAS isn’t an issue of SPAA not being perfect or an imbalance, it is an issue of air superiority and the results of what heppens when you don’t have it.

There are many systems that don’t exist in game because of the limitations of the game thus far. SPAA are not designed to be absolute long range counters, there are limitations to those systems that are handled by emplaced air defense systems which are not appropriate for Warthunder. I would be very interested if you could identify a single SPAA system that can engage a target at 15km+ other than the Pantsir. The Pantsir is a massive SPAA system designed under a different doctrine than used by other countries.

There are more game modes than just ground. Air already has more technology than ground can handle and there aren’t even current generation aircraft , and the current planes are already missing key features like ECCM pods and such.

Anything that uses the Maverick missile can also outrange current SPAA, so why is only the Su-25SM3 a huge issue all of a sudden? The A-10s at 10.0/10.3 have Mavericks with over 20km launch range, and the 10.0 SPAA are worse off than the 11.7s in that regard. Hel

What is another SPAA that the US used to take over top tier? Maybe M-SHORAD, a more modern system, but it only uses Stingers and has no search capability as it is designed for use with other radar systems. This is the problem of SPAA, they aren’t all designed for extremely long range engagements because aircraft and emplaced air defense are for keeping the skies clear on the modern battlefield.

This is why I say fighters are the counter for these long range strikers, because that is how the modern battlegield operates. I know Warthunder is not a direct reflection of how vehicle warfare actually works in real life, but the designs of these vehicles are for that real life implementation with other systems that are not present in Warthunder.

I understand that some people expect to only need to play ground vehicles in ground modes and be able to destroy everything on the battlefield without issue, aircraft included, but that isn’t really how Warthunder works. Aircraft are a vital implementation that I think all players should take advantage of at all levels because they can make or break you in terms of success. Just like how level bombers in low tiers can’t be easily countered by autocannon SPAA but could be destroyed by large caliber flak guns which aren’t really used properly in game. Those bombers can be countered by a fighter (or even an attacker). Jet strikers (or multirole fighters) can be countered by fighters in a similar manner while the SPAA aren’t designed to.

3 Likes

Wait until you hear what X-38s do against aircraft

Taking up a fighter against the nation with the Pantsir.

1 Like

Not if pantsir is able to shoot them down easily.

i don’t know what this gotta do with what i said, anyways what i said was Russia isn’t the only nation that can get superior stuff such as pantsir,su-25sm3 the last one is totally broken, even Russia mains said it, everybody said it, its way ahead of its time.

if i gotta take a fighter to counter a bomber while there’s a Pantsir that can shoot me down +15km away it doesn’t make anysense, if i try to fight it pantsir gonna easily shoot me down.

as i said before, the SU-25SM3 is way ahead of its time, Gaijin is adding stuff balantly ignoring other nations over and over again, it’s insane how many people claim otherwise.

how is it possible that a jet that can easily massacre your whole team easily and by surprise it got an SPAA that can also massacre your whole team that took aircrafts, it doesn’t make any sense.

4 Likes

Getting a Maverick to actually lock past 12-13km is rare too. You can get it to point lock but then all the Pantsir has to do is move and he is fine let alone how easy it is to shoot Mavericks down with the Pantsir (and other AA)

1 Like

SU25SM3 entered service in 2018, the radar missiles we get (AIM7M) entered service in the early 80s. How that makes any sense to this guy I have no Idea.

5 Likes

If u get the AGM-65G u can actually lock onto a target 9km away and launch, but i suspet it’s gonna get shot down easily by a Pantsir.

MUH… get a fighter to counter a bomber when there’s a Pantsir on my butt locking on me

i totally have no idea how does this guy brain work

1 Like

It does, I was firing 65G at Pantsir a few days ago and he shot down both of the ones I fired from my F16C

1 Like

KH38M was revealed in 2007 and wasn’t commissioned until 2012

1 Like

If we had “equivalent” air to air missiles in terms of service date we would need to have stuff like AIM-120C-5/6/7

1 Like

yeah good luck getting those stuff in this game, maybe after years of premium top tier jets.helis.tanks u gonna get something useful. You gonna see when Amraams get added for every nation you gonna look at your missile go drive onto a hill for absolutely no reason and the enemy’s missile shoot u down easily.