So the Tornado F3 must be artificially nerfed at 12.0 because?
Im really not sure what your argument is here.
So drop its BR down then. If BOL cannot be fixed and “interceptors are bad”. Then why is it 12.0 and not 11.7 like the Mig-23MLD is?
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The F3 at 12.0?
Look at the Phantoms. Similar loadout, 4 SARHs, not sure how many IR missiles, if my memory serves me right 2, maybe 4?
Compared to that the Mig 23 has only 2 SARH missiles.
It also has a useable RWR unlike the Mig-23, mind you for me the Mig 23 RWR was already sufficient.
Has a somewhat better radar, mitigated by possibly a slightly worse missile.
As for the BOL pods… I was flying the Tornado IDS - i never really struggled to flare of IR missiles, SARH missiles were arguably harder, mostly dying due to just falling asleep while flying that thing. Yeah, I have to drop 10 chaff out of 640 maybe? Arguably even less at times.
Toenados are slow though, thats something I admit.
You could put it at 11.7, and wouldnt change much, neither for the Nado or its opponents, neither in up or down tier.
Id say its a pretty average performer at that BR, but at 12.0 even things like F-4S suffer in an uptier. The difference, is that the F-4S doesnt have BOL pods. I use the F-4S because thats the only 12.0 aircraft that comes to my mind, besides the Viggen D. Here the problem is not BOL pods. The problem is that you fight 4th gen aircraft in a 3rd gen aircraft.
Against their own BR they are both pretty formidable, and outright OP against anything at 11.0, with the only reason losing to an 11.0 aircraft being engaging in a fight where the 11.0 dogfighters are more evenly matched or outright better.
Or losing situational awareness.
With that said, I havent seen a single Nado F3 at 11.0. They are either sucked in by uptiers or non-existent, Id argue most people skip on it, since we have the Bison, as its not needed to be played to get into higher BRs. Id understand someone playing the Nado F3 after the F-4EJunk, but since we have the Bison, I can clearly see it fading into obscurity.
BOL =/= BOZ two very different dispensers.
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The Tornado IDS has 56 large calibre flares and 1200 large calibre chaff from its BOZ pods
The Tornado F3 has 32 Large calibre CMs and 320 BOL.
Of course its easier to flare or chaff in the Tornado IDS
BOL chaff is 1/4 the strength of regular chaff and large chaff is about 5.5x stronger than regular chaff. So that meant you needed to drop 10 large chaff from the Tornado IDS to defeat an SARH. In the F3 Id probably have to drop about 200 ish to match the same amount of chaff you dropped with those 10 LCMs in the IDS.
You could fix BOL.
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You could fix BOL, than have all the valid arguments to push it upnin BR, where the tornado would struggle.
It gets downtiered because it doesn’t have proper BOL. that’s all you need to know.
Theyre strong in a dogfight but their IR signature is so gimped. My personal pick is the T.10 and ive hit 2KD in it after mastering the cannons (should be higher but its taken a while to get used to them after the Gau12) Its very fun in airRB but you gotta pick your fights. aim9L to the rear is a death sentance since the BOL is poor + your IR Signature (thrust signature). Overall recommend, the cannons are such an upgrade over ADEN30 its insane. imagine Mauser27 but it does way more damage and has a higher firerate.
Which are much stronger then the aim7s, IOG is no joke at 11.7 (certain airframes in a down tier down even have an RWR (Jaguar E im looking at you))
Again, i think its compression thats the issue rather then the planes. one could argue the MiG23MLD (or even the ML, but most certainly the MLD) could be put too 12.0. just because of the missiles.
Then again i do love baiting them into a dogfight with my 11.3 harriers. 1 v 2 a pair of MLDs and they physically cant get nose on target before they eat a 25mm. skill issue, poor coordination or perhaps im just goated in the T.10
The Mig 23s could be put to 12.0 yes.
With that said, I wouldnt bring a harrier into an ARB match, though Id love to goof around with it, especially the ones with the 120s.
Point is that, while the Harrier could viff and do well in a dogfight, and competent enemy would try to keep a distance. Just like I dont start a turn fight against the Su-25s or A-10s, rather extend away from them, if they are caught slightly off-guard, or off-angle, I know Ill be far away by the time they would have a launch on me.
As you mentioned the Harrier heat signature is borked - but that could (have) be(en) solved already with a rework on heat signatures specific to that plane - or general. On the other end of the spectrum, the F-5s even with full AB on are relatively cold compared to what they should be.
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No. It is undertiered, because it would face superior missiles and platforms if it was any higher.
Viggen Di, F-4F Ice, Nado F3 Late all face this issue: outdated platforms with modern weaponry.
If you buff BOL pods, the standars F3 could see itself raised in BR to 12.3 or arguably even 12.7, with the F3 late being uotiered to 13.3. You would then complain it being too high in BR.
The Viggen D, Nado F3 early are at a fair BR, that they share with things like the more modern Phantoms. Mind you i rarely if ever see them, as statistically speaking an uptier is favored by the match-maker. There is an argument to push them down to 11.7 with the current effectiveness of BOL pods - at the same time it would completely destroy lower BRs at that point by just using a single brain cell - keep the distance. Its probably the situation of the Me-262- too good to be put at lower BRs and too bad to be put at higher BRs.
If they get a corrected FM this could prove very very difficult.
That and the fact that VIFF doesn’t actually do anything in game technically and you’ll see just how badly they have been treated lol.
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Some would. Some wouldn’t. But would rather have 352 CMs at 12.3 in the F3 than 32 at 12.0.
And there are yet more buffs available for the F3 from FM buffs to Phimat. Let alone things like 9Ms if needed
The Tornado basically needs all these buffs, the unfortunate reality of the tornado is that it will never be that good of an air to air platform. Apparently its engines became anemic at medium to high alts as well.
@Smin1080p_WT is there any news on whether the developers are considering changes to BOL?
There’s now 750 votes with 94% wanting the artificial nerfs Gaijin made to be reverted.
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Yeah, it’s a shame the tornados will never be really good. Though I think the anemic engines at alt is actually fairly accurate
Those damn artificial nerds 😜
(I don’t know why autocorrect hates the word nerfs so much)
It is the men and women who flew them confirm that much in basically every interview lol.
Unfortunately it’s just not a great ATA platform, however it’s a beast at ATG.
We finally get good AA and people instantly make a post to render them useless.
I’m just coping because my J-10 has 72 cms :(. Still though its literally fine, War Thunder is a videogame not military combat training software. It is okay to have things nerfed for the sake of balance.
Well, it’s the fact they needed reheat to keep up with a FA2 at 30k ft which makes me think they are a little underpowered in the engine department at alt
Fixed. I don’t know either. Clearly we need to use the word more until auto correct realises the error of it’s ways.
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