Ah yes, the tornado F3 the most OP CAS aircraft in the game. Oh and can’t forget that sea harrier FA2 or Viggen Di. Those are also OP CAS aircraft
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Imagine being Gaijin and taking the time to apply that nerf while there are so many other pressing issues.
Probably a Su-27 pilot that got clapped in a down tier
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Wouldn’t be surprised.
The tornado isn’t that impressive of an aircraft to start with. I do agree with this nerf as it’s realistic however.
Frankly they need to add bol pods to a lot of the aircraft that could carry them.
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I do too but more it’s hardly amazing where it is and now the Radar and the missiles effectiveness will be reduced notice it has no FM changes or Phimat pods to offset this…
Yes, again I was talking about the UKs fighter lineup past like 9.0 and the UK doesn’t get a competitive fighter until eft and gripen.
The Sea Harrier (a plane that COULD be very competitive and fairly meta) is complete ass for no other reason except gaijins neglect.
Think about this for a second Climb up to 20K feet faster than any 11.0 aircraft essentially, with Dechirped 9L you can basically use them as Sparrows. 4 Mach 3+ missiles zooming towards targets that didn’t even get a launch warning.
Than you can hit the deck and take out any low flying aircraft with cannons and EEGS. Except this time you’ll have a 7/10 dominant advantage over a MiG-21 meaning you’re the top dog in a dogfight at 11.0.
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By the fact the F-18 is getting 8 of them. I reckon they are going to be doing so slowly.
But they really need to fix them first, because at the moment. 8x BOL rails is good, but not necessarily OP. Fixed, it probably will be OP.
So if they need to do a bit of limiting with the BOL amounts (like they did with the Harrier T10), then it needs to be done after BOL is fixed not before
This is the biggest reason why helicopters have been so bad for so long. As they are turboshaft engines that produce minimal thrust but a lot of shaft horsepower, their heat signatures are extremely low which is very inaccurate. Something like the Alouette with an unshielded turbine (jet) engine should absolutely produce crazy IR signatures, and it just doesn’t.
The limiting factor for the MANPADS we already have is their kinematic range, not their lock range. The Stinger can lock a helicopter outside of its guaranteed range yet in War Thunder it cannot. This also makes upgrades like HIRSS and IRCM not as beneficial as they could be (save for the Ka-52’s DIRCM).
As @Morvran pointed out, we have seen the change to fuel dumping increasing IR signature as well as a surface heating effect modelled, so we could be close to an IR rework, imo it should be a top priority as we are entering the 5th gen IR missile with DL+IIR.
2 Likes
Most educational.
I guess it is also down to Harriers unique heat signature due to having a very odd nozzle set up compared to more traditional jets.
I guess BOL pods could be reviewed on an individual basis, rather than blanket buff them.
What is the total capacity of Harrier BOL pods?
However it wouldnt solve a problem without creating more problems.
I have been playing the Lazur for a while now, and I can easily say that at 11.0 it is too easy to fool a missile already. Rear aspect, visibily afterburning, below 1km and I still see R-60MKs being fooled by a flare, while opponent is flying straight.
Bring the BOL pods to the equivalence of Large Countermeasures, and Gaijin created a problem similar to what we had with Multipathing. That it takes way more skill to get a kill, than to avoid being killed. The Gripen back in the days was basically untouchable, while it could kill you with relative ease.
It would not necessarily reinforce the dogfighting meta as people would all just use BOL pods (or similar), set it to autorelease, and basically remove one aspect of the game completely. People will from then on do everything to avoid IR missile gameplay, given how bad it is, instead of jamming WEZ, or avoiding being in IR missile range.
At 11.0 with the Lazur… Im not saying its a bad aircraft. But the gameplay is awful. Its basically playing stealth IR ambush, without a stealth aircraft (but yeah we also have markers).
So yeah bring the BOL pods to the level of large countermeasures, and the game will even be worse for lower tiers where BOL is already a thing and relies mostly on non-top-tier IR missiles, and top-tier stock grinds.
Its not just BOL that needs a rework. And as you have seen, I am not against “buffing” the BOL pods - my NO is in favour of it; but it cannot just happen on its own without changes to other aspects that are involved with the BOL-pods. High/Top-Tier IR missile warfare should not downgrade to what it is like now at 11.0.
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Yes - if decompression happens along with a rework of how heat and IR seekers are handled. Rear aspect afterburner straight should at least be a 50-50 for the missile, and here I am talking about like below 1km. Currently its 0% for the missile, its too easy. Ive seen a post somewhere, where it says that the 9L could reject flares within 1 km, with like 62-80% chance depending on launch distance. I understand one shouldnt compare the 9L and the 60M… my 60MKs at times reject flares within 800 meters, at times they go for flares even at 600 meters…
Top-tier stock grind would have to be changed/buffed again then, cause with the limited missile loadouts TT jets get as stock, it will be just worse off for them, essentially having to gun-grind, because BOL pods will simply nullify the threat of missiles ever hitting your jet.
Eventually we will get IR missiles with imaging seekers which will nullify BOL pods - I guess.
The Harrier was very cold irl it’s due to gaijins modeling
4 Likes
We really need an ir spectrum rework. Missiles like the python 3 and aim9l would benefit heavily.
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Im still blown away by how stupid it is quite frankly. I was under the impression they did a significantly better job, but I guess they have been letting thermodynamics in-game slip pretty hard since the prop days
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There. There it is. It involves lessening the suffrage of the Tomcats.
Ah yes. My favorite CAS plaform. The F-14B from 2 years ago.
F-14A never had BOL. You’re on your own there mate with the 60 regs
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You’re right I’ll change it. I was focused on the correlation between thrust and engine heat.
I don’t think you understand how reliant some aircraft are on BOL and how much they have to spam them to escape something as simple as a non irccm sidewinder
The aircraft with BOL you will be encountering at 11.0 is the Harrier T10, Tornado F3 and Viggen D.
The Harrier is limited to 2 already (should have 4) and suffers from the aforementioned heat issues shouldnt be that big of a deal. It could also move from 11.3 to 11.7 comfortably with this change.
Tornado F3 could definetly move from 12.0 to 12.3 with full strength BOL and it is already kinda silly its the same BR as the FGR2 whilst being superior in every single respect. That is just how much BOL’s poor performance is impacting the current BR of aircraft. That an aircraft 100% dependent on them is forced to be at the same BR as aircraft without a lot of the same kit.
VIggen D has a number of weaknesses that shouldnt result in it moving.
The only real concern with BOL are the aircraft like the F-18C which are recieving them this major update having over 1000 CMs. But quite frankly, if that is an issue, then simply reduce the number of BOL pods the F-18 has from 8 down to 4 or 2 rather than nerf all BOL pods.
BOL is not that common, but the aircraft that are 100% dependent on them are really really struggling at the moment
5 Likes
I dont think i’ve missed any, but I was thinking about BR placement for aircraft if they got 100% fixed BOL (large flares with short burn and standard chaff)
There are a few aircraft that would probably need to move fairly quickly. Some that really shouldnt move and the rest that I simply dont know, so should be watched closely, with either some BOL being removed if they are too strong being considered isntead of a BR change.
To that end:
Aircraft that should move or get a reduced amount of BOL
- Harrier T10 (if it begins to struggle, then it can always get its missing 2x BOL, though the harriers accross the board have a lot of issues)
- Tornado F3 (quite frankly, shouldnt be at the same BR as the Phantom FGR2 anyway)
- Tornado F3 Late (with at least 1x Phimat pod)
- F-18C (The sheer amount is a major concern)
Aircraft that shouldnt move/change straight away, but need to be watched closely
- Viggen D
- Harrier Gr7
- Gripen A (I can definetly see 2x BOL being removed)
- Gripen C
- Typhoon
Aircraft that dont need move for various reasons
- Sea Harrier FA2
- Viggen DI
- Tornado Gr4
- F-14B
7 Likes
This is amazingly made! This definitely should be added along with BOL pods for many other aircraft. (F-15E, Su-30, Su-22, F-16C, A couple Mirages and the american F/A-18C)
2 Likes