Want me to send you replays, in which R-60MKs got flared off within 800 meters, with afterburners on?
Ive been grinding Germany with the Lazur M, my last couple hundreds of plays definetly has moments when it happened?
Or better even, just try to find my replays, Im sure you can search for replays, cause now you know my nickname.
@MatrixRupture can you give you a replay of a r60m ignoring 8x flares fires rear aspect against a harrier at 3km
Unfortunately, i normally fire around 2.5kms or less, does that work?
Also sorry, cant exactly remember in which of it I played against a harrier, but we are talking about a large variety: Su-22s, Mig 21 variants, Phantoms, A-10s, F-104s… all of them flaring R-60MKs within a kilometer pal.
And also other times the missile just straight on ignored the flares within I think 400 meters, but thats a FOV thing. Good luck ever trying to get into 400 meters with an F-104. But thats another story. Front aspect in this case is a different story as well missile does not track right off the rail, and reaction times matter a lot.
Hell nah, let cas suffer
The planes that have bol are not even that effect as CAS platforms compared to say the SU-30
This was illuminating and that’s not even with BOL pods
The data is from multiple attempts of each btw.
Than I collected the average flares needed for % of missile defeat.
You need 8 while turning to 100% beat it.
A game mode called “Air Battles” also exists you know…
And the BOL nerf is a pretty major problem there for aircraft like the Tornado F.3.
The nado is also getting its radar fix and now its only silver lining will be removed.
Ah yes, the tornado F3 the most OP CAS aircraft in the game. Oh and can’t forget that sea harrier FA2 or Viggen Di. Those are also OP CAS aircraft
Imagine being Gaijin and taking the time to apply that nerf while there are so many other pressing issues.
Probably a Su-27 pilot that got clapped in a down tier
Wouldn’t be surprised.
The tornado isn’t that impressive of an aircraft to start with. I do agree with this nerf as it’s realistic however.
Frankly they need to add bol pods to a lot of the aircraft that could carry them.
I do too but more it’s hardly amazing where it is and now the Radar and the missiles effectiveness will be reduced notice it has no FM changes or Phimat pods to offset this…
Yes, again I was talking about the UKs fighter lineup past like 9.0 and the UK doesn’t get a competitive fighter until eft and gripen.
The Sea Harrier (a plane that COULD be very competitive and fairly meta) is complete ass for no other reason except gaijins neglect.
Think about this for a second Climb up to 20K feet faster than any 11.0 aircraft essentially, with Dechirped 9L you can basically use them as Sparrows. 4 Mach 3+ missiles zooming towards targets that didn’t even get a launch warning.
Than you can hit the deck and take out any low flying aircraft with cannons and EEGS. Except this time you’ll have a 7/10 dominant advantage over a MiG-21 meaning you’re the top dog in a dogfight at 11.0.
By the fact the F-18 is getting 8 of them. I reckon they are going to be doing so slowly.
But they really need to fix them first, because at the moment. 8x BOL rails is good, but not necessarily OP. Fixed, it probably will be OP.
So if they need to do a bit of limiting with the BOL amounts (like they did with the Harrier T10), then it needs to be done after BOL is fixed not before
This is the biggest reason why helicopters have been so bad for so long. As they are turboshaft engines that produce minimal thrust but a lot of shaft horsepower, their heat signatures are extremely low which is very inaccurate. Something like the Alouette with an unshielded turbine (jet) engine should absolutely produce crazy IR signatures, and it just doesn’t.
The limiting factor for the MANPADS we already have is their kinematic range, not their lock range. The Stinger can lock a helicopter outside of its guaranteed range yet in War Thunder it cannot. This also makes upgrades like HIRSS and IRCM not as beneficial as they could be (save for the Ka-52’s DIRCM).
As @Morvran pointed out, we have seen the change to fuel dumping increasing IR signature as well as a surface heating effect modelled, so we could be close to an IR rework, imo it should be a top priority as we are entering the 5th gen IR missile with DL+IIR.
Most educational.
I guess it is also down to Harriers unique heat signature due to having a very odd nozzle set up compared to more traditional jets.
I guess BOL pods could be reviewed on an individual basis, rather than blanket buff them.
What is the total capacity of Harrier BOL pods?
However it wouldnt solve a problem without creating more problems.
I have been playing the Lazur for a while now, and I can easily say that at 11.0 it is too easy to fool a missile already. Rear aspect, visibily afterburning, below 1km and I still see R-60MKs being fooled by a flare, while opponent is flying straight.
Bring the BOL pods to the equivalence of Large Countermeasures, and Gaijin created a problem similar to what we had with Multipathing. That it takes way more skill to get a kill, than to avoid being killed. The Gripen back in the days was basically untouchable, while it could kill you with relative ease.
It would not necessarily reinforce the dogfighting meta as people would all just use BOL pods (or similar), set it to autorelease, and basically remove one aspect of the game completely. People will from then on do everything to avoid IR missile gameplay, given how bad it is, instead of jamming WEZ, or avoiding being in IR missile range.
At 11.0 with the Lazur… Im not saying its a bad aircraft. But the gameplay is awful. Its basically playing stealth IR ambush, without a stealth aircraft (but yeah we also have markers).
So yeah bring the BOL pods to the level of large countermeasures, and the game will even be worse for lower tiers where BOL is already a thing and relies mostly on non-top-tier IR missiles, and top-tier stock grinds.
Its not just BOL that needs a rework. And as you have seen, I am not against “buffing” the BOL pods - my NO is in favour of it; but it cannot just happen on its own without changes to other aspects that are involved with the BOL-pods. High/Top-Tier IR missile warfare should not downgrade to what it is like now at 11.0.
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Yes - if decompression happens along with a rework of how heat and IR seekers are handled. Rear aspect afterburner straight should at least be a 50-50 for the missile, and here I am talking about like below 1km. Currently its 0% for the missile, its too easy. Ive seen a post somewhere, where it says that the 9L could reject flares within 1 km, with like 62-80% chance depending on launch distance. I understand one shouldnt compare the 9L and the 60M… my 60MKs at times reject flares within 800 meters, at times they go for flares even at 600 meters…
Top-tier stock grind would have to be changed/buffed again then, cause with the limited missile loadouts TT jets get as stock, it will be just worse off for them, essentially having to gun-grind, because BOL pods will simply nullify the threat of missiles ever hitting your jet.
Eventually we will get IR missiles with imaging seekers which will nullify BOL pods - I guess.
The Harrier was very cold irl it’s due to gaijins modeling
