If they get a corrected FM this could prove very very difficult.
That and the fact that VIFF doesn’t actually do anything in game technically and you’ll see just how badly they have been treated lol.
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Some would. Some wouldn’t. But would rather have 352 CMs at 12.3 in the F3 than 32 at 12.0.
And there are yet more buffs available for the F3 from FM buffs to Phimat. Let alone things like 9Ms if needed
The Tornado basically needs all these buffs, the unfortunate reality of the tornado is that it will never be that good of an air to air platform. Apparently its engines became anemic at medium to high alts as well.
@Smin1080p_WT is there any news on whether the developers are considering changes to BOL?
There’s now 750 votes with 94% wanting the artificial nerfs Gaijin made to be reverted.
11 Likes
Yeah, it’s a shame the tornados will never be really good. Though I think the anemic engines at alt is actually fairly accurate
Those damn artificial nerds 😜
(I don’t know why autocorrect hates the word nerfs so much)
It is the men and women who flew them confirm that much in basically every interview lol.
Unfortunately it’s just not a great ATA platform, however it’s a beast at ATG.
We finally get good AA and people instantly make a post to render them useless.
I’m just coping because my J-10 has 72 cms :(. Still though its literally fine, War Thunder is a videogame not military combat training software. It is okay to have things nerfed for the sake of balance.
Well, it’s the fact they needed reheat to keep up with a FA2 at 30k ft which makes me think they are a little underpowered in the engine department at alt
Fixed. I don’t know either. Clearly we need to use the word more until auto correct realises the error of it’s ways.
2 Likes
352 CMs at 12.3, in a BR where 60CMs for a plane is average.
In a BR where a select few CAS planes have missiles that are considered “OP IRCCM missiles”.
My practical experience with the R-60M, at times the 9L as well, is that they are very flare hungry, and a few flares are enough.
Leave the long-range shots out of the picture, as the missile relocks itself. Close range shots.
Not even all Top tier aircraft have 300+ CMs.
This is why I keep coming back - they wouldnt understand
Yes, and the FA.2 is still nerfed so we few in the UK TT don’t really get a good ATA platform until Typhoon really.
I think how it works now is a very good balancing nerf. Yes, you have much more flares than the other aircraft but they are not as effective. Flares and chaff is extremely important at top tier, when you run out you become a sitting duck. It would not be fair if some jets had an indefinite reserve of good countermeasures while others are out after 3 minutes. The worse BOL countermeasures forces you to use them more sparingly and deplete them at about the same rate of lower count jets like Flanker or F-16C.
Most BOL carriers are pure A2A or relatively low on CAS power so GRB isnt relevant
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12.3 is the same BR where you have the F18 and F16. If either of those can’t deal with an F3 its a skill issues
Based upon the FM the F3 should be more like 11.0/11.3. so a large CM count is not unreasonable to support it at higher BRs. Like for example the Tornado Gr4 having 600 flares and 600 chaff at 12.3 Vs the the other IDS at 11.3 with 56 flares and 1200 chaff
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Hello
At the moment we dont have any new news to share on the subject. We are continuing to forward feedback on all dev server topics and subjects and the devs are srill reviewing whay has already been passed.
Iirc, the F-16 only has 9Ls at that BR, and the hornet has a somewhat limited loadout. I dont even know the latter is at such a low BR though.
Regarding the FM…
What do the F-104s do at 9.3?
They can be quite hard to catch even at 11.0.
There is a reason why people bomb with them.
The Nado, believe it or not has a good FM at that BR. Brickish, but by far not the worst FM. More interceptor than a classic air superiority fighter, but so are the, wrongly modelled Mig-23, and the Mig 21s. I think the closest we have to to an air superiority fighter at those BRs is the F-4 Phantom, at least regarding real life role.
Yet again the Nado is handicapped here for several reasons: good A2A loadout at that BR - which is why the early C hornet is at 12.7. At 12.0 not many aircraft can carry 8 missiles.
Then we have the BOL, which still adds extra capability to the Nados - furthering the argument that it is good where it is.
The best thing that could happen to the Nado, would be the complete removal of BOL pods, which could make it go down to 11.7.
Fyi: the IDS versions already feel slow at 11.0/11.3, although part of the bigger problem is that people fully pack it with 12x2000 lb bombs. After dropping the bomb, the Nados flight model opens up, and Id like to say, without the bombs its a different aircraft to play.
It also has good RWR, and a solid radar. I wouldnt call the Mig 23 radar to be good after that big nerf to it.
It also only has 6 missiles. The R-60Ms go for the first flare they see, the 24R is good, but the radar is bad behind it, and I admit I never really used the 24T.
I ask you again: if you want BOL to be buffed, expect a raise in the BR of the Nado, the Harriers into BRs where their FMs are outdated. Its not that the CMs will defeat the missiles - your flight model will be so old and outdated compared to what you are up against, that the enemy team will do whatever they want to do with you and you will be left at the mercy of them.
Something the F-4F ICe, and the Tornado F3 late already experience.
The F-18A is at 12.3 the only reason the F-18C is at 12.7 is because it has Aim-7Ps with IOG.
It was at the same relative BR, actually, if anything lower than it was now when BOL were modeled just like regular CMs. No one had issues. (11.3 vs the F-16A at 12.0) So why all of a sudden the Tornado F3 which is now relatively speaking higher than it was before msut be massively artifically nerfed?
32 CMs? At 11.7 on an aircraft with basically no dogfighitng ability?
That would mean it would be 11.0 alongside the Mig-23M.
And again. I have no issues with this. Id rather have 352 CMs at 12.3 than 32 at 12.0. I am full prepared and more than happy for the BR of some of these aircraft to have an increased BR
T10 would probably go up to 11.7 where it is fine and if its struggles it can get its missing 2x BOL.
Tornado F3 would be fine at 12.3 and if it begins to struggle it can get Phimat for extra CMs or they could finish the FM and add combat thrust or even get Aim-9Ms
Harrier Gr7 wouldnt move at this time I dont think and if it does. It can get its missing 2x AAMs for a further buff at 12.7
Tornado Gr4 wont move. 12.3 is already pushing it a bit imo, and its got such a good CM load anyway, you wont notice the extra strength from the BOL
Sea Harrier FA2 is already in desperate need of a BR reduction. So BOL Might actually keep it at the current BR and full strength BOL might mean you can get away with running just 1, which opens a world of extra loadout configs for it.
Tornado F3 Late should probably be higher than aircraft like the Viggen Di anyway, and again, has plenty of buffs available for it, Phimat is the bare minimum for 13.3 but if it really needed something it can get everything from towed radar decoys to ASRAAM and Aim-120C5s. It will be fine.
Typhoon having decent chaff in its BOL is hardly even worth mentioning given that everyone else already has half decent CM loads at top tier anyway
Those are the aircraft I fly and I dont see what the issue is with any of them getting full strength BOL
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Mind you, youd be at a higher BR with worse missiles.
Yeah sure lets give the F3 (without the Amraams) 9Ms and see its BR raised to 13.0, it would be totally fine at that BR /s
The F3 late with both amraams and 9M would sit at a BR of 13.3 or 13.7.
Sure lets add 320 extra full-size large caliber CMs to it as well - now we have a tornado F3 that is so capable that itd have to be put at 13.3 at the very least… and that would be the F3 with only SARH missiles, SARH missiles that are already horrible at 12.7 when it comes to their respective kinematic performance.
320 CMs are a lot - especially if they were modelled according to the OP of this post. Especially at 12.0.
Reduced numbers, than youd still be complaining because you cant turn off your brain for i dunno how many minutes.