it climbs like a monkey, can easily get to altitude where it becomes a threat, turns slightly below average.
I don’t have it but that’s what i’ve got from fighting it
Like I mentioned in a previous post, I believe that air spawns of any variety should only be given to bombers, attackers, and for balancing reasons because this game is already so off-basis with the historical use case of so, so, so many vehicles to the point that it’s not even worth discussing in my opinion.
In ARB, stock vs stock, the [6.0] J7W1 (15.3m/s) climbs better than:
Spoiler
- [5.0] A6M6c (7.8m/s)
- [5.0] Me 410 B-6/R3 (8.1m/s)
- [5.0] A6M5 Hei (8.1m/s)
- [5.0] Fw 190 A-8 (9.7m/s)
- [5.0] NC.900 (10.2m/s)
- [5.0] Fw 190 F-8 (11.7m/s)
- [5.0] Fw 190 C (12.3m/s)
- [5.0] Fw 190 D-12 (12.9m/s)
- [5.0] Fw 190 D-13 (12.9m/s)
- [5.0] J2M5 (12.9m/s)
- [5.0] J2M4 Kai (13.2m/s)
- [5.0] G.55 serie 1 (13.5m/s)
- [5.0] A7M1 (NK9H) (13.6m/s)
- [5.0] Seafire LF Mk.III (14.6m/s)
- [5.0] Spitfire Mk Vc (14.6m/s)
- [5.0] Yak-9P (15.1m/s)
- [5.3] La-11 (11.6m/s)
- [5.3] A6M5 Ko (13.4m/s)
- [5.3] A6M5 otsu (13.4m/s)
- [5.3] N1K1-Ja (13.6m/s)
- [5.3] Ki-84 ko (14.1m/s)
- [5.3] A7M2 (15.1m/s)
- [5.7] P-47M-1-RE (10.8m/s)
- [5.7] Ki-87 (11.6m/s)
- [5.7] J2M5 (13.0m/s)
- [5.7] F4U-4B (13.8m/s)
- [5.7] Tempest Mk V (14.0m/s)
- [5.7] Ki-84 otsu (14.1m/s)
- [5.7] Yak-9UT (14.9m/s)
- [6.0] Re.2005 serie 0 (12.5m/s)
- [6.0] F4U-7 (13.5m/s)
- [6.0] Ki-94-II (13.5m/s)
- [6.0] Ta 152 H-1 (13.8m/s)
- [6.0] N1K2-J (14.2m/s)
- [6.0] N1K2-Ja (14.2m/s)
- [6.0] La-9 (14.3m/s)
- [6.0] F2G-1 (14.9m/s)
- [6.3] Ta 152 C-3 (9.7m/s)
- [6.3] P-51H-5-NA (12.1m/s)
- [6.3] Ki-84 hei (14.1m/s)
- [6.3] Me 262 A-1/U4 (15.0m/s)
- [6.7] J6K1 (12.4m/s)
- [7.0] Me 262 A-1a (14.9m/s)
- [7.0] Me 262 A-1a/Jabo (14.9m/s)
Equal to:
Spoiler
- [5.3] F-82E (15.3m/s)
- [5.7] P-59A (15.3m/s)
Worse than:
Spoiler
- [5.0] MB.5 (15.6m/s)
- [5.0] G.55S (15.7m/s)
- [5.0] I-225 (16.6m/s)
- [5.0] Spitfire F Mk XVI (17.5m/s)
- [5.0] Yak-3P (17.7m/s)
- [5.0] P-51D-30 (18.3m/s)
- [5.0] P-51K (18.3m/s)
- [5.3] Bf 109 G-14/AS (16.4m/s)
- [5.3] P-38K (18.6m/s)
- [5.3] Seafire F Mk XVII (19.5m/s)
- [6.3] F8F-1B (19.3m/s)
- [6.3] F7F-1 (20.0m/s)
- [5.7] J2M3 (16.0m/s)
- [5.7] Bf 109 G-14 (16.3m/s)
- [5.7] Bf 109 G-10 (17.0m/s)
- [5.7] Spitfire F Mk XVIIIe (17.9m/s)
- [5.7] Bf 109 K-4 (18.0m/s)
- [5.7] Spitfire FR Mk XIVe (18.1m/s)
- [5.7] Seafire FR 47 (18.2m/s)
- [5.7] Spitfire F Mk 22 (18.5m/s)
- [5.7] Spitfire F Mk XIVc (18.8m/s)
- [5.7] Spitfire F Mk XIVe (19.0m/s)
- [5.7] Yak-3U (21.6m/s)
- [5.7] Spitfire LF Mk IX (22.2m/s)
- [5.7] Spitfire LF Mk.IXe (22.2m/s)
- [5.7] Spitfire LF Mk IXc (22.2m/s)
- [5.7] Sea Fury FB 11 (17.9m/s)
- [6.0] Ki-83 (17.0m/s)
- [6.0] Tempest Mk II (17.2m/s)
- [6.0] He 162 A-2 (18.1m/s)
- [6.0] He 162 A-1 (18.1m/s)
- [6.0] Hornet Mk.I (19.1m/s)
- [6.0] Hornet Mk.III (19.2m/s)
- [6.3] G.56 (18.0m/s)
- [6.3] Yak-15P (19.2m/s)
- [6.3] F7F-3 (20.0m/s)
- [6.7] Yak-15 (19.2m/s)
- [6.7] Yak-17 (19.4m/s)
- [6.7] Spitfire F Mk 24 (19.8m/s)
- [6.7] BI (79.1m/s)
- [7.0] Ho 229 V3 (16.1m/s)
- [7.0] Kikka (22.3m/s)
- [7.0] F-89D (26.7m/s)
- [7.0] F-89B (38.4m/s)
Of all the fighters it could possibly face, it climbs better than or equal to 52.04% of them. Only 25.51% (25 planes) of the fighters it faces climb significantly better (+3.0m/s) than it. In a down tier it climbs better 57.63% of the fighters it faces. If none of the fighters that it is equal to or better than need air-spawns, a better question is why do you think the J7W1 does? It is competitive in the majority of situations and needs no further advantage.
I take it you’ve never actually played the J7W.
Also, where are you even getting these numbers from, and why compare stock values in the first place? Because if those are statcard values… I have a bridge to sell you. Maybe even two.
I have in-fact played the J7W1 before. It is a slightly above-average fighter. You not winning every single 1v1 or having people manage to climb above you does not make it a bad fighter in need of an airspawn.
The numbers I’m using come from the wiki. I compared stock because it’s what EVERYONE has. It’s a baseline. The point of comparisons like that aren’t to compare best (or worst) case scenario.
Your statcard seems to disagree.
I have a very large bridge to sell you.
Nobody stays stock forever. Most of the time people are flying spaded planes to research the next tiers.
This thing struggles to take down 5.7 fighters. A Yak-3U can outclimb, outspeed, outmaneuver it. Even much heavier fighters (relative to 3U) like F2G and P-51H can do the same. LF Mk9s may be slower (not by much), but they’ll EASILY outclimb and outmaneuver it, and from there they can just dive on you for free, forever.
Except it is a bad fighter, for all the reasons I mentioned above. If it is losing in the vast majority of situations and parameters to aircraft at or near it’s BR, it’s a bad plane. It received an FM buff recently which made it playable but it still flies like it is at a whole BR lower.
The concept of having more than one account really seems to elude War Thunder players.
Disprove it.
The point of the comparison is to establish a baseline. Spaded the list is literally exactly the same save one or two planes.
Not in my experience, sounds like a skill issue?
Neither can outclimb the J7W1.
Objectively, it is average.
You are derailing this thread and I wasn’t even responding to you initially. I’m not going to continue to reply.
No. If wt would be accurate there would be no I-225 in the game.
There were just two (!!!) I-225 prototypes ever built - they never saw service. And if they would allow prototypes they would need a BR of 6.0 (Air RB currently at 5.0) at least - ofc without an airspawn (based on introduction / 2nd prototype 03.1945) to be “historically” accurate and would have to face Me 262s…😉
Regarding your request:
-
Imho you received valuable feedback - and you might consider that gaijin does not connect IRL usage or purpose of an aircraft when they allocate air spawns for fighters. The plane needs no airspawn.
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Technically seen almost all fighter air spawns are based on gaijin’s balancing approach - and from my pov a “real” interceptor needs no airspawn.
Regarding the plane itself:
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The current BR is too low as soon as you meet any experienced pilot flying it, all he has to do is to drag his most dangerous enemies above 7-8 km and make the fight slow. Imho a 5.3 BR would be easily justified.
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I meet frequently two very good players (thank god always in different matches) flying them to their absolute strength and you need to double team them above 7-8 km as the plane turns exceptionally well at very high alt at rather slow speeds and is fast like hell.
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I saw them killing (i watched the replays) P-38 Js, Ki-84s, A7M2s & J2Ms in pure 1 vs 1s flown by good & experienced pilots. Killing them requires a significant speed and alt advantage - not really easy thx to contrails revealing your position.
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You claim, in your list, that planes such as the J2M5, N1K1-J, Ki-84, F2G, J6K, P-51H get outclimbed by the J7W. I’m not doing the whole roster, that’s a waste of time.
This is only true if you take the statcard values at face value, even though they are very well-known for being wrong all the time.
Their actual climb rates, at sea level and ~20min fuel (or closest), and what the statcard claims for a spaded plane, are as follows:
J2M5 - 26m/s - 17.5m/s
N1K1-J - 27m/s - 17.8m/s
Ki-84 - 27m/s - 17.9m/s
F2G - 29m/s - 20m/s
J6K - 28m/s - 16m/s
P-51H - 30m/s - 18.1m/s
J7W - 22m/s - 18.6m/s
Unfortunately I don’t have the I-225 metamobile to throw into the pile, but looking at power to weight ratio alone, it easily trounces even the P-51H if both are at 3km or higher.
Even if you choose to take advantage of the J7W’s supposed better performance at high altitude, the I-225 beats you at your own game. On top of getting up there faster in the first place.
So it doesn’t outclimb many of the planes you said it would (because statcards are useless and they lie), it certainly can’t outturn almost anything on that list (ALL of the ones I mentioned above can outturn it), and many can outspeed it. A single hit to either wingtip is enough to put it into an unrecoverable flatspin. The many oil tanks will instantly drain all the oil when hit and you must RTB immediately.
It is only good if all you do is full commit head-ons. Which hey maybe you’re into that but I prefer to not have to gamble.
So do you think J7W1 should be 5.7 or even 5.3 instead?
Based on what? What does it do that makes you think this?
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So if I hopped in any 5.7 fighter of my choosing you’d be able to handle me in a J7W1? Please man, listen to yourself.
So you just haven’t actually did any testing?
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No. I think it should stay 6.0 and not be given an air-spawn as it is. I don’t think any adjustment is needed.
Given War Thunder gives altitude (potential energy) as a meta, and I could outclimb you in 52.04% of the choices you could possibly make, yes.
Can’t imagine actively refusing to read a post before replying to it, lol
Also, you don’t need to make multiple posts to reply to me. :)
I don’t see how. Any experienced pilot I’ve ever spoken to and my own observation indicates it is a very, very mediocre if not downright underpowered plane.
I don’t really trust your shakey data analysis on this, especially when you’ve already made the mistake of saying a J7 outclimbs a P51H.
I read it, you just aren’t convincing in the slightest and sometimes straight up say things I’m about 99% certain are untrue.
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Objectively, it does.
I don’t really care if I am. I’m not trying to convince you. This isn’t an argument. You asked me a question, and I answered. It’s not even the topic of this thread.
Look big man, you can have whatever cope you want. I don’t really care, but objectively, you are incorrect.
Can you show real evidence
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He won’t have any because his “source” is literally the statcard.
Also, forgot to mention this, outclimbing somebody by 3 seconds to 5000 meters altitude doesn’t secure you a real advantage in air RB, especially when your aircraft flies like shit.
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There is a knock-on effect of climb-rate for when it’s an 1 vs 1 duel though, to play devil’s advocate.
And that is climb rate is indicative of energy generation, and energy generation enables higher energy-cost maneuvers to be done longer or more often and also permits more vertical fights over flatter fights.
As it is, it looks superior to Bf 109 G-14 without WEP in vertical fights and slightly worse with WEP enabled (and 109s love their loops and spiral climbs to drain the enemies of energy (both dominate F Mk IX in such, LF Mk IX beats them except for a narrow 1.5-2.5 km perforance gap where G-14 and I-225 have P/W and SEP advantage. Over 5km, I-225 beats both G-14 and LF Mk IX handily)
Again, just devil’s advocate to reinforce that “time to altitude” isn’t the only way climb rate affects the way a fight goes.
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I’m not talking about historically arcuate br’s or the fact that it was a prototype and warthunder has tons of aircraft that were never produced
Ok - but what kind of historical accuracy you are asking for with this sentence?:
I don’t understand this then…