Navweaps gives different rates of fire for these weapons depending on who was using them … the twin mounts are not the same:
Soviet and Italian Minisini cannons/turrets are the same, they weren’t modified in SU service, also as’s been confirmed multiple times by Italian naval enthusiasts, navyweapons is not a good resource for information on Italian cannons.
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By all means provide that information then, so that we can all be aware of it.
Links - or it doesn’t exist.
You can find multiple photo evidence which is unfortunately not accepted by Gaijin for bug reports, there was a thread on the old forum by @antonioll for example.
And there is no any information about any modernizations provided by Soviets to these mounts.
Bug report by Dexter_Morgan_
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/VswTpZIbTWk1
If you are just confused by different names, there is a description in Campbell’s book for example:
Funny enough Russian sources state 12 shots/min for Italian Minisini already.
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Training, maintenance of equipment, and testing methodology also exists.
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Such phrase can be applied to Minizini as well, if you tried to disregard that Japanese one are actually one worse condition.
Of course Soviet grain diet against Italian pasta, there is an obvious advantage of SU 😆
https://jareelskaj.github.io/wt-wiki-tools/naval_weapons_table
for the naval gun in game you can watch this is official
among the multiple issues there are:
(littorio class battleships)
- wrong penetration values of the Littorio class battleship SAP shells.
- wrong reloading time and rate of fire .
- Crew hitboxes placed outside the cittadel (while other battleships have the crew hitboxes placed at the level of the main armored belt, Roma and Litttorio currently has the crew hitboxes placed at the level of the 70mm armored deck).
- Fire control stations wrongly modelled and merged (Littorio class battleships had 5 fire control stations, 1 for the main battery, 2 for secondary battery and 3 for AA battery…in game they are merged in 2 giant stations). With the current configuration the fire control stations are extremely vulnerable…the esiest fix should be the elimination of the secondary weapons stations (152mm and 90mm).
- Fire director module is missing on the conning tower.
- Foamed concrete is missing in the armor layout, between the main plate and the 70mm decapping plate, due the lack of this layer the game doesn’t simulate the decapping effect that was one of the main feature of the Littorio’s armored belt. Since ships with concrete (Kongo for example) are present in game and the concrete has a muplier value already in game of x0,35, we assumed that since the foamed concrete had a lower density than the standard concrete could be applied a value of x0,10 or x0,15 because the AIR (that is considered as armor in game for the tanks) has a value of x0,05.
- Auxiliary rudders are merged in a single module with the main rudder while they should be indipendent. (we we pointed out that the Giulio Cesare in the russian TT had the rudders divided in two modules, instead of extending that to the other ships with auxiliary rudders they decided to fix that by merging the two modules in one also on that battleship).
- The conning tower is half empty (only one of the 3 levels is occupied by crew)….the crew is located only in corrispondance of the bridge, while the two levels are left empty, there is more crew located on the rangefinders for comparison, this resoults in more crew losses)
- The auxiliary boiler [used in real life only in port] counts as engine while everyone could easily see that isn’t connected to any transmission!! With all the malus connected to that: speed and crew loss.
- Littorio class battleship carried not just one spotter but at least 3 Ro43 idroplanes or one Ro43 and one Re 2000 fighter., in game Roma and Littorio carries currently just one Ro 43.
- Telemetric tower on the Roma has the wrong model, infact now it shows the model of the Littorio.
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Cursory look through google tells me 1.3 rpm is realistic but I didn’t look much more than surface level.
However, in-game it should at minimum be 1.9 rpm so it actually has a chance to fight back against 8.7s or even Bismarck and Gneisenau.
Edit
Added some context
for more informations take a look at the bug report
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/wMfyRu2sr3bg
even when evidences were provided… gaijin refuses to listen, they claim that the enormous difference was due the firing at first and second charge, but as you’ll see in the report it is impossible to have such difference.
the 381/50 was designed to be able to fire every 28 seconds at a fixed angle of reload.
In game battleships like Bismarck doesn’t even have the pratical rate of fire but the one provided by the designer…Roma and Littorio are the only one where it is applied the average rate of fire even if they reloaded faster after trials and more exercises.
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Given the amount of evidence provided in the bug report, 30 seconds for ace crew is realistic.
I have no idea why this was rejected other than sheer stubbornness.
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Regarding rate of fire, it seems the only way to fix it is to post in the next br changes thread, at least I was talked to do it this they on the Russian forum.
On how many of these issues do we have reports btw?
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several of them were already reporte…but there are also some that are recently discovered.
the more I look at that battleship the more I find wrong things
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I’ve got some books on Littorio, maybe they could help to report stuff, if you don’t have them already:
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I have been playing the Roma a long time and I am always on the bottom of the stats after a game whereas before when I was going up the ranks I was usually top three. I resigned myself that I suck. So today I decided to grind for the Bismarck. I started playing the Hipper which I have without mods. Second game I play, I’m number two on the stats after the game and I did this with the basic HE shells. Wow. All I can say is the shells of Roma really suck. I can see I am hitting the opponent ships but I am doing hardly no damage. Someone fix these shells!
Stats from Statsshark:
| Ship | Win rate % | Kills per death |
|---|---|---|
| Soyuz | 56.1 | 7.09 |
| Vanguard | 53 | 3.80 |
| Iowa | 51.4 | 5.07 |
| BIsmarck | 50.9 | 3.06 |
| Musashi | 47.9 | 2.72 |
| Yamato | 47.7 | 2.72 |
| Roma | 47.5 | 1.48 |
| Richelieu | 47.4 | 2.41 |
| Clemenceau | 46…8 | 2.96 |
| Italia | 44.8 | 1.57 |
Roma and Italia have the worst kill to death rate by a long shot.
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currently bots are bugged and are extinguishin fires inmediately, the strenght of Roma is being able to lolpen anything to set things on fire like ammo elevators to kill the ships in that way, rather than spamming and killing via crew loss.
So now Roma cant kill bots fast, and needs to target only players specifically(and hope those players are slow to react to extinguish fires) since players are not bugged and they will burn down to death.
so yeah, playing battleships sucks since the last major update in november, and gaijin hasnt fixed this problem even on the devserver, so we are looking more weeks(or even months) of unplayable battleships in general(just that it affects Roma a lot more due to low reload speed)
i mean, i was also performing pretty well with roma when it was released, but now that played her again to grind some xp for littorio it was impossible to kill enemies bots(pretty much the only thing i was able to kill was a bismarck played that started dueling me)
even when i went to play Cavour it was still hard to do damage when Cavour is a very chill 7.3 to play and do well, so playing other nations doesnt seems like its gonna make much difference, better play around 5.0 cruisers and destroyers or play coastal while we wait for gaijin to fix the bugs that are making playing battleships of all nations insufferable(if they ever bother to fix them since its been a month already)