Then add Longbow and its going let them peek and shoot and hide with zero threats, these new SPAAs can lock and launch behind tree cover and the missiles going to come from above.
at that point it’s just like playing whak-a-mole, in the end the helicopter is getting smacked.
We have the same situation right now on the live server whenever a Pantsir or ItO is on the enemy team. Unless those are distracted by something else they have you on their radar even before you can peek over cover using the sights (even with mast mounted sights). It’s sure that they see you before you see them. Fact.
The 95Ya6 travels at 1.300m/s (the VT-1 is verly close at 1.250m/s), whereas the Hellfire doesn’t even reach it’s advertised merely 475m/s. And let’s keep in mind one missils flies in a straight line and the other is lofting upward prolonging the time it takes to reach a target, so not exactly equal chances.
Currently the only way to use Hellfire-equipped helicopters effectively at top tier is to get something like a mountain between the helipad and the enemy spawn point, focusing on enemy tanks that are between the capture points and the own spawn. That’s the only viable tactic (which is very situational. it’s a 50/50 chance that you are on the team that gets pushed in the own spawn, or your team is pushing into the enemies). This is possible not on many maps. Vietnam works quite good, and Sweden, but only from one side… and that’s about it. Many maps have a pretty awefull helipad placement, many times in the flat open, visible from the enemy spawn. I had some cases where my RWR went off, even before the black screen faded after spawn (you could say that there are still another helipad and the airfield to spawn from, but in most cases that results in a minute long flight just to be shot down in the open where is nothing but trees… great experciance).If a map has a mountain (and that’s a big “if”), well there’s not many choices to peek from… left, or right… so much to “tactic”. Making such helicopters work is very much map dependent and also relies heavily on the capabilities of the own team. Games where an Apache shines are very rare and I know 'cause I have every Apache (US is the exception currently but same applies to the Zulu).
What about minor nations though? I feel like they will suffer a lot more. More deadly CAS sounds like the wrong move.
like half the nations in game, including a number of minor nations have an ah64d variant that could use AGM-114L
2 Likes
It would be pretty boring if top tier heli was just a bunch of apache clones.
it already is for a bunch of nations, you just dont see to many because ah64 is bad at top tier
3 Likes
I just did some search and I believe only Japan, UK, and Taiwan (ROC) could get it since the AGM-114L can only fire on the AH-64D and AH-64E. Other countries would need something just as good to fill the gap. Maybe France too since they have the Dutch sub-tree.
israel could too
so its 4/10 nations can and 3 of the remaining ones already have fire and forget missiles on heli
also with how made up it is it wouldnt be a terrible change to give Swedish ah64 the radar and 114L
It still feels pretty tasteless to give everybody longbow for the sake of balance :/. Like yeah technically everybody can get a F-16C but its not very interesting. They should focus more on adding better domestic helicopters/weapons like they did with Fox-3s.
Man lemme teach you… Maybe we will finally have a chance xD
I dont think much will change. Well maybe smth like vertical launched missiles like IRIS-T could be problematic tho. Other than that i dont see a reason to add 114L. 16 (very decent) FnF missiles is A LOT
In real life many of these have a minimum distance afaik. Putting that aside:
Helis are not necessarily deployed against SAMs.
Bombs, ATGMs, anti-radiation missiles much more likely.
Artillery. The key word is artillery.
Honestly, they should open up some of the air map for GRBs but only for SPGs and SPAAs. It will add a bit of a Hide and Seek for CAS, but at least they will have their own mini-game.
SPAA would be relatively safe from most ground threats (IRL not all of these systems are deployed so close to an active front line).
SPGs new task would be: provide indirect fire support against ground targets on main-ground map, provide counterbattery fire, and finally: attempt to snipe SPAA. Yes with the addition of counterbattery radars.
Light tanks could fly their drones to actively scout enemy SPAA, or SPG. Would declutter main ground map which is also why the small maps are problematic. This is also why CAS jets are OP - they dont really need to look for ground targets. They would also feel more threatened, as SPAA could be in many other places.
SPAA and SPG gameplay would be more active/ engaging.
SPG wouldnt be OP because shell travel time, and terrain. With everything being equally threatened targets would move perhaps more often.
Helis could scout. Since there would be an opening somewhere, that they could exploit, they could fill the traditional flanking/ cavalry role.
Anyways on the side note: SPAAs at the moment they are already a waste - considering they can do only one thing really. There are ways to use Helis even within the current meta really. If SPAA sits back and they cant provide coverage to their team, their team would be exposed to attacks from CAS and Helis - most players from what Ive seen actively pick an SPAA if they get killed by airborne threats. Eventually the enemy team will be full of SPAA or weaker vehicles that ground forces can exploit. So i that way, Helicopters are enablers within the current meta.
Those of us who know the general flow of a match, will leave after the first death - cause this snowballing effect is very much real.
Top-tier is totally destroyed by map flow and gameplay flow. CAS, and how strong it is, is a symptom, rather than the cause.
Giving helis FnF weaponry- Im not sure it would solve any problems for Helis.
Going back to tactics - scout before moving in. RWR can be used to scout as well :) I normally tend to be aware of threats - doesnt mean I wont die to it. Im not an experienced heli-pilot within war thunder - but I try to be methodical.
What I try to avoid: cresting. Nothing is more visible than peeking over a hill - I do it at times for a quick view with the high zoom camera. Than I get back quick to make up a plan, estimate if enemy is aware or not. If aware, Ill try to sneak around. I use low altitude to protect myself. Rather than cresting over, I try to sneak up in a valley to get closer, and remove the threat with alternative approaches - rockets, guns or if the enemy is not aware a missile. Would Hellfire Limas help? Definetly. Do I consider them essential? No.
France, Israel and Italy already have Spike ER missiles, Germany has PARS 3LR. China developed MMW seeker AKD-10s. The only nation that hasn’t developed a contemporary is Russia.
And before someone says it; no, LMUR is a contemporary of Spike NLOS and CM-502KG.
You don’t have to sit as long to lase targets effectively, which is the primary issue for Hellfires.
Yes I can avoid SAMs using terrain masking but the difference in time and sweat is unreal vs just spawning a fixed wing and tossing a Maverick or Kh-38, the implementation of missile physics for Hellfires also really screwed with lasing/duck/re-lasing. Not to mention how long finding a decent position vs how long a average top tier game lasts, Hellfires are just not worth it, at all.
Depends on the new SAMs.
3 Likes
What minor nations dont have fnf?? italy, france, israel, all have spikes. Sweden doesnt use the radar guided hellfires so im not sure what they could receive. so all but 2 (sweden and china) have fnf.
edit: japan can receive the hellfire L as well
you forgot another argument that could be used perfectly. (PARS 3 LR air-to-ground missile) and the (Spike ER air-to-ground missile). Just make the AGM 114L fire and forget. Until they area ready to add the systems that it actually used. And then update them a simple solution for a simple problem. But hey we are talking about gaijin and we all know they cant understand such thinking XD
Never.
People like you ruin the experience for everyone.
2 Likes
Im not the one who frequently leaves after 1 death. But the problem persists in the terrible gameplay flow within a match.
After 1st death, people expect CAS to run havoc on your team, who will take on SPAA in a futile attempt to reverse the flow of the match - only to be useless once CAS is gone or… when the enemy tanks start rolling over into the spawn zone.
Leaving earlier just means one thing: a shorter suffering. Both to you, your team and and the enemy team (arguably, it is always worth staying a bit more for an extra kill.)
Alternative take: speed is king. Smaller maps, you know that after you die, the enemy will get closer to locking you down in your spawn (getting into power positions), and its hard or impossible to get out from the established killzone.
So do I ruin the game for you? No. You do it for yourself by probably staying longer than you should have.
Yet again, I havent played GRB for a month, before that I might have left 1 game out of 30 after the first death.
Helis are already dead.
- Spawn SPAA. Leave radar off and turn on IRST and thermals.
2-6
- Kill helicopter.
The first time you see them is when you’re firing at them…
Or you could just hit them with a single MG round so they can’t fire at all :p
edit : I thought better of this… but you can track helicopters easily without radar or even needing to see them.
1 Like
At the moment it is known that the Mi-28NM helicopter has received the latest DIRCM, which deflects almost all missiles. It is not yet known whether this function will be available for all helicopters or just one.
typical bias, guess they didnt like the Namars and PUMAs with spikes yeeting KAs from distance with no counter play.
to be fair the no counterplay part was kinda annoying, but itd be beyond re****ed if they only added it to russian helos