I believe you, otherwise I would’ve swapped nation.
But I also believe it shouldn’t be behind reality on that number :)
Then you can report it through above links and guides with appropriate sources :)
I’m doing that as we speak :)
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So as I was digging the hole deeper to make sure I have greater sources backing myself, I managed to find historical caracteristics manual for D520s. It can be found on the public domain, dates from around 85 years ago and is marked as archives so I believe it respects the general rules of technical documentation for military vehicles
So admitting linear flight caracteristics, 6000m in 8.30" translates to a climb rate of about 11.8m/s
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The D.520 itself is largely fine, if a bit substandard for a 3.0.
Compared to other contemporaries, the D.520 is one of the slowest and the worst climbing single-engined fighters at the BR, however it’s by far the lightest and one of the most manoeuvrable fighters, only being bested by the Spitfire and Hurricane amongst other 3.0’s. It also dives phenomenally well, extremely stable with very little risk of wing shearing from overspeed.
The biggest flaw is absolutely the ammo capacity of the Hispano 404, at a mere 60 rounds. While the gun hits quite hard and is very accurate, you can’t use it for very long and you’re left with some pitiful 7.5’s when it runs out. Granted you have a lot of ammo in those 7.5’s, but they’re amongst the weakest of the aircraft LMG’s. It also can’t carry any bombs, which makes it borderline useless for CAS / ground attack.
Now I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention that the French tree is lacking all the excellent variants of the D.520 that would make for far more competitive planes.
Chiefly; the D.524, SE.520Z, D.551, D.554 and M.520T. All of these aircraft would make for excellent indigenous fighters but alas, Gaijin refuses to add any of them.
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That’s all good points here (I will test that plane even if it climbs like a dead cow, I ain’t grinding for nothing) and I absolutely follow on the fact the hispano ammo is a massive flaw of the french line rank I and II (I play MS 400s extensively, trust me, i know :D)
Now French lacking many of those aircrafts you named isn’t much of an issue to me personally, even tho i’d love that tree of ours to be greater. Objectively, most of the french aircraft list of the 30s and 40s did not pass the prototype phase and if they did it was in very select numbers as far as I know, and most of their variants came too late to be of use, or got flat-out abandonned. D520Z perfect example, even tho I’d love a D520 with an engine juiced by some additional 500hp, very cool sounding
Isn’t climb rate practically the result of power/weight?
If it has less engine power but is much lighter it shouldn’t be that much worse than a Bf 109 E right?
Chat GPT gave me this:
Bf 109 E-4: ~423 hp/ton
D.520: ~360 hp/ton
According to the data above and other data I won’t spam here for thread pollution it wasn’t that much worse IRL so i’m making a good ol’report to gaijin and see what they have to say about it
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So the document above that gave an average time of 8.30" to climb to 6000m ? I found in the same manual an actual flight report which shows very interesting data
Here read D520 climbing performances. It writes a table Temps de montée in which an altitude H in meters is associated with the time T to reach it.
Between each altitude measure, a climb rate W is associated.
- It took 1 minute 08 seconds, to reach altitude 1000m from altitude 0m, giving a climb rate of 14.7m/s for this step
- It took 1 minute 14 seconds, to reach altitude 2000m from altitude 1000m, giving a climb rate of 13.5m/s for this step
- It took 1 minute 42 seconds to reach altitude 6000m from altitude 5000m, giving a climb rate of 9.8m/s for this step
If we want to fit it to a game by making an average of all value. All 8 values give an average, flight tested, climb rate of 11m/s for D.520s for altitude 0m to 7500m.
Or we go all hog in and only use 0m to 4000m because the average fights don’t happen higher and we pull out the average 12.65m/s climb rate, Vive la France! :p
Diving in this rabbit hole was actually much funnier than I thought it would be
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The climb rate is the result of engine power getting lower with altitude, as well as the air getting thinner.
There must be something wrong with the flight model, if the weight of the plane and the engine power and prop efficiency are otherwise correct in the game.
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I guess, I don’t really know how the relationship between engine power, aircraft weight and aircraft climb rate works in video games.
But since similar aircrafts, such as the MS 400 series and the VG.33 are both around 10m/s, while being slightly lighter but also having a weaker engine, I do believe it mostly is in direct control of Gaijin.
I don’t think the flight model is at play since it doesn’t really has anything special to it compared to other similar aircrafts in the game.
It’s a very curious case because I have now checked around a dozen of pages on the subject, all having an historical source, and the lowest I ever found is an average of 10.7m/s climb rate in a history book, which is still 55% more than what it currently has in the game.
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Well, climb rate is basically acceleration.
So maybe the prop is modeled to be very inefficient, and only slowly accelerating the plane.
Since power/weight should be more or less correct.
Imho you could have saved yourself a lot of time if you would have noticed that you are referring to:
- A stat card value (which is not reliable)
- A climb rate for a stock (=not spaded) aircraft which is not relevant
You might find this interesting:
This fighter is the classic “jack of all trades, master of none”. It can be an energy fighter, bomber hunter, or even a turn-fighter. It depends on your playstyle, and the kinds of enemy aircraft that are encountered. During the battle you have to keep in mind your best climb speed is 220 km/h (IAS) allowing you to reach a good 18 m/s. Your engine power will always increase due to the linear compressor giving you your best flight performance at 4000 m.
Found here:
I face the D 520 from time to time in my Me 410, the plane is quite good - but way too slow to be a threat. Btw - the 410 A-1 has allegedly a climb rate of ~ 10m/sec (fully spaded). Not true - the plane climbs like a rocket with up to 20m/sec.
In case you want more detailed information about the D 520:
- Check the old wt forum for aircraft data sheets
- Install WTRTI and measure climb rate by yourself
Have a good one!
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I mean, of course I question a stat card value. Why else put stat cards if they serve no use ?
A stat card value is based on whatever math WT formula is responsible for it. Thus its results are supposed to be consistent with the stats of a given fuselage. There is, to me, an actual underlying issue if D.520s display a climb rate of 6.9m/s when every other aircrafts display a more believable result. Even if it turns out he climbs nicely, there’s room for fixing.
Spaded or not my main comparison was putting the D.520 against other non-spaded aircrafts so modifications are not in play in both sides, making this point irrelevant. Even spaded it still has meh climbing rates, according to the data I had
What I basically questionned is why its stats are low compared to others and why is it not comparable, not spaded, to BF109 E series which are basically his actual historical adversary. Even the wiki refers to it as a slow climbing aircraft when it actually was average and compensated with a notably high manoeuvrability, something I understand to not be in the game.
Anyway I did not know 3rd party softwares were allowed (anti-cheat) and I took measure and was pleased to see it’s actually just a card error so thanks for that. This thread is now a “fix your display card” :p
Did you test these numbers or is this from a statcard? I know from experience that the 109 E-4 can do 20ms+ at low alt.
edit: ah, you mentioned in another message that it is from statcard. It is automatically lying.
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Like when gaijin fully ignores any and all “causation” or pesky things like “nuance” and balance things strictly based off what a computer tells them to do! I mean, that is why we have IDENTICAL AIRCRAFT AT DIFFERENT BATTLE RATINGS right?
I know you’re a game master and your job is to just do whatever gaijin says, but you can’t seriously believe BRs are fine if you actually play this game even semi-casually and pay any attention.
I urge you to read through my forum history and re-think your comments here :)
Not sure what you think I’d find doing that that would make me rethink what I said.
I don’t “have to do what Gaijin says”. I have on several occasions been critical on how they handle things, i have also on several occasions questioned the BR system. i play VERY actively :)
I do not however have any more influence over how development goes than any other player does.