I also think the ASRAAM should be better at medium range than the IRIS-T (see my post before), i did my list wrong.
For the AIM-9X it depends if we’re talking about the Block 2 or the Block 3. The Block 2 being behind the ASRAAM and the Block 3 with an increase of 60% range being above the ASRAAM. * Block 3 achieved initial operational capability in 2022 but is still not in active service.
Agree with you on this point
Other missile were not designed to do BVR.
The maximum theorical range of the AIM9 (<Block 3) is 20km. (your point on the motor that didn’t change for 40years)
The ASRAAM has range “in excess” of 25km, but i’m not sure it’s possible to achieve that kind of range in any practical way (This is probably calculated for 2 aircraft flying at MACH 1 into each other at 36000ft and not doing any evasive maneuveurs). It’s theoricaly possible but wouldn’t be achieved in real combat (The Magic 2 we have in game has a theorical max range of 14kms but you won’t see a kill at that distance any time)
The IRIS-T is given a range of up to 25kms whitch is again not really possible in any real combat situation.
The PYTHON-5 has a theorical max range of 20kms, same as the AIM9-X, it’s not a missile made for any long range engagment, it’s really a pure dogfigth missile (and it’s one of the best at it).
The R73M/R74 has a theorical maximum range of 40kms but i really don’t know how they calculated this one.
On the other hand the MICA IR has a theorical max range of 60kms, while this range is not in any really obtainable in a real combat situation it has the best range of all the other IR missile out there (execpted the R-27ET) and is able to shoot farther at the cost of being behind in off-boresigth capabilities.
Saying it’s able to shoot further than 20km with still energy to do maneuvers. From open source information the MICA IR shoud be able to pull 30g even after a 15kms.
It was in the doctrine of the french airforce to have two “long range” BVR missile with IR and RF so the ennemy don’t know witch kind of counter-messure to use in case a missile is on him. Especialy since the NATO doctrine at the time was to shoot on the enemy aircraft only after visual/ID confirmation (so closer range than the max range of a radar).
That’s why i put it between (bracket), to show that’s it’s not yet avaible but soon will be.
Well yeah, give me a source that’s say something different
well, give me a source that proves that MICA IR has that range, you stated it, you need to prove - not me, it doesnt work like that
and whats about them?
ER and ET have the same seeker in both missile
ET has the T seeker, ER has the R seeker
the body and the motors are diffrent
i explained above already what the case with this missiles is, but if you to butthurted to, idk, read it because your holy french missiles are worse, that is not really my problem
also, just because nobody here agrees or only agrees to a certain amount , it doesnt make me wrong lol
but if you think, if the majority says so - it must be true, go ahead
Well i’m wrong then, it’s capable after 20kms, but still not as mutch as the Mica (having a bit longuer range)
With that kind of maximum range, a shot behond 20km still has a very low kill probability.
Same for the MICA, firing them at their maximal range is still probably going to do nothing.
The MICA RF and MICA IR have the same body and propulsor, the only difference is the sensor at the end of the missile. The difference in range between the two are due to the aerodynamics of the seeker (the IR one being a little bit less aerodynamic than the RF one).
The aerodynamics difference make the range of the IR missile around 10% from the first source and from other source the IR one has 60kms max range while the RF one has 80kms.
As you can see all the different values are still above 60kms and since there was a test at 67kms you know that this value is rigth (at least for the RF variant)
its easy to claim that MICA IR has XYX km range when most sources talk about MICA without an addon.
To me these longrange stats make sense for a radar variante, not so much for the IR but hey… maybe the french had a developed a magical IR seeker that could see 60+km from 1982 to 1996 and to this day not a single country could develop something similar…
everyone can believe what they want idc :D
I don’t think anyone is necessarily claiming that. Modern IR missiles have a LOAL mode so they can be fired at long range, fly to the estimated target location and then lock on with the IR seeker. Just like how many modern IR missiles can be fired at targets behind you without needing a seeker that can look backwards through the missile.
to me the LOAL argument makes even less sense.
these are all theoretical ranges against none maneuvering targets
more important is the burntime (how much it can follow a maneuvering target) of the motor and the powersupply (how long till self deto) of of the missile for applications like WT.
The seeker obviously can’t see anything at that distance in any realistic operational scenario.
The 3d gen seeker for the MICA is said to be able to see target up to 4/5 time further aways than older gen IR seeker. So maybe around 20km at ground level against an afterburning target and i mean 60kms at higth altitude and a afterburning target , the seeker migth see the exaust (but the missile would be able to chase the airplane obviously due to kinematic limitation).
As @Flame2512 said, the MICA IR missile has a LOAL (Lock On After Launch) mode and can be linked to radar or the OSF on the rafale to be shot at long range without any warning for the opposing aircraft.
We all agree on this, those range are not in any operational scenario, where the NEZ of the missile is mutch smaller. An IRIS-T is never going to be able to intercept a real target at 25kms while a MICA IR is never going to intercept a target at 60kms
The burntime and the motor specification are not known so we can only speculate on the thrust the missile has.
It’s said (the source is not available to me so it’s not a certainty) that’s the missile is 50G at close range and 30g capable at 15kms.
The powersuply is the same as for a FOX3 for exemple since you have a LOAL mode, so it’s should be enougth for a BVR shot.
The Red Top (which entered service in 1964) had a front aspect lock range of over 20 km, if the target was high enough and fast enough. I imagine a seeker that’s over 30 years newer will have substantially better performance than that (even if not quite 60 km seeker range).
Imaging infrared seekers can have a much wider field of view and scanning area than an older IR missile seeker (especially those with crossed array or older IRCCM techniques) and more so than a mechanically scanned radar.
It still has a wider fov than most modern AESA - tipped missiles but lacks in how fast it can scan in comparison.
