How long has he been writing jeez
since 12-15 minutes now
Jeez louise
in the end he just posts 2 sentences xD
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got news reagrding @The_Hutske wall of text, apparently he cant post stuff since he hasnt played in 4 days and is currently not at home.
so, here is His Wall of Text:
To all my Worried SPAA/ SLM fans out here, I have some sad and hard hitting news for you:
You are fighting a battle you are not gonna win because the fault of the SLM cant be fixed by making the missile better or faster. Actually by making the missile faster the SLM got even worse! (and that have been noted by players)
The problem isnt the speed or how it guides. It something completly different that they probably will never fix.Its the server tickrate, let me explane:
I did the math on it and got it peer reviewed by my brother, who is very good at math. (And i wil try to get it peer reviewed again by a unrelated person to remove any biases) We calculated the % chance a interception is succesful by looking at how much distance (in meters per tick) a missile meets another missile.
A 1000m/s AA missile (we took this number bc some are slower and some are faster) vs a KH38 at its most optimal speed. We used a kh38 at 2km height shooting at a target that was 10km away and noted highest speed it got (1 millisecond after the burner ran out it. i dont remember the exact speed)
Then we looked at the server tickrate and my sources said that ground was at 24tps and air was at 48tps.
With these 2 numbers we calculated at what speed they pass eachother and noted the speed in MpT (meters per tick) And it was something around 90meters per single tickwe had some trouble finding at what tps a missile flies but chat GPT said a ATGM goes at 48 while a AA missile goes at 24TPS so we went with that bc we had no other source
Also we calulated this with a proxyfuze range of 9m radius = 18m diameter (aka pansir)
So with this we did the math and came to the conclusion that when these missiles pass each other at their most optimal speed. you have a hit chance of around 35%
And if the AA or ATGM goes faster its even a lower chance.
and this is in optimal conditions where the 2 missiles basically
Touch each other. but for every single meter away form the centre the chances are even lower.So now that the SLM got more speed it went from 35% to 30% making it even worse.
And the SLM has a lower proxy fuze radius so its even lower than 30% (i would guess around 27%)The pansir also has this issue and it suffers even more bc it goes way faster. but because the pansir has a higher proxyfuze radius (9m aka 18M diameter) And by a stroke of good luck (or other factors that shall not be named) The pansir almost never fights against ATGMs that go faster than mach 1 making it a almost 80% hit chance or higher IIRC.
So the conclusion is not that the SLM sucks bc its has been designd bad. No its bad (at hitting munitions) because of outside factors that are by design and will likely never be changed, because that would force gajijn to start using higher tickare severs, or make subtick detection possible. But i doubt that they will do any of that.
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My main problem with this is that it is based on an assumption about the server tick rate, i have no idea what the actual tick rate is but assuming and drawing conclusions based on it doesn’t mean much.
It should also be a pretty easy fix, just add a check to see if the AA and the ATGM have crossed paths within a certain distance or not during the last tick.
Not only that, but this entire assumption, if true, would also mean that a jet at full speed in the air going straight towards an ARH missile would face the same issue, something i personally haven’t heard anything about.
11 Likes
Relocking with DL has been similarly “refused” for ARH missiles, due to technical reasons.
One solution that they could implement is having it automatically reconnect to DL if the original target it was datalinked for is relocked (pretend it’s the operator doing it automatically for you). Would not allow retargeting to another target using datalink though, but it would still be better than now (doing nothing).
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/ZzrCDyoVlwu2
i made another bug report, while its sad to see how munition intercept is limited by the server acording to that statement, it not beeing able to see munition is a big part of it aswell , honestly if they just get it accepted that would be ok for me
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bruh, they got a hairtrigger on declining issues, i guessi can do it again with exactly what they want but man, this is just nitpicking
im glad tho that he explained instead of just closing it
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Those files are needed for them to be able to investigate the issue. Replay/log files saves the exact moment a screenshot is taken in the code so that the dev’s can actually find the moment in the code that fails. Without the replay/log files there is no code to look through, without a screenshot there is so much code to look through that it is VERY impractical and a large waste of time compared to the few seconds it takes to make a screenshot and find the part of the code in minutes instead of hours.
The steps to reproduce is there to also help describe the issue, like does it only happen at certain angles, certain speeds etc. That helps narrow down what the underlying cause of the issue might be.
This is at least as far as i understand it to work.
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can i make the screenshot in a replay aswell or does it have to be in the match? its kinda hard to tell whats going on 10km away from you if i cant use replays
[DEV] TRML-4D missing look-forward/look-back
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/y0H7BpcYYb8E
3 Likes
thank you for posting this on my behalf
you sure you quoted the right one?
lol i messed up
thank you for your reply.
Im having trouble understanding why you think im assuming anything?
my source on the tickrate is anton himself https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/74sm7k/are_sparks_gone_about_wt_netcode/ saying that air runs at 48 tps. And tools have been used to find the real tps in match and for air it is around 40 sometimes lower and ground it is around 20. so what anton writes here seems pretty solid. The only assumtion i did is that ATGM’s run at 48tps.
And for the ARH argument. A plane is way bigger than a small little missile, making it WAY easier for a proxy fuze to detect and hit. And also planes in air RB almost never go over mach1.5. while the missiles i tested went over mach 3. so making the likelyhood of this happening in AIR rb way way lower.
but i will test it later today if air to air missiles alos have this issue at high speeds.
pretty ironic that you are assuming that my testing was based on a assumsion , while i have sources. pretty ironic right?
But ground ARH like 120c-7 don’t have problem with hitting munitions.
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i have not tested the 120c-7 but it seems this problem is with all spaa’s with missiles.
or maybe ARH uses different hit reg code than SACLOS or ground based IR missiles
and it goes a bit slower so that helps
This:
You are assuming the server tick rates based on chat GPT information. Not only that, i don’t think a server has different tick rates for different elements, all elements on the server should as far as i know get updated at the same rate. It doesn’t really make sense to run different objects at different rates as the entire rest of the server keeps one rate.
That wasn’t included in the first post :)
well yes, but at the numbers you calculated the same issue would still occur frequently, a jet is perhaps at most 3x the length of a missile. So the issue would then happen only a third of the time, which is still ridiculously often if you’re comparing to the SLM munition misses and i can’t say that i’ve personally seen or heard of such an issue.
I often do get to about that speed in the F-15C at 9+km height. and a ATGM will likely be slower than that and still not get hit by the SLM going at mach 1.
not really since you didn’t list those sources in your first post.
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