but that much of a difference seems weird
1744Ns/kg for the SLS vs 2350Ns/kg for the SLM
Not really as the IRIS-Ts four stage burn profile is fairly complex with a focus on maneuverability (especially at the moment of launch) to hit targets maneuvering targets in a 360° sphere nearby while the SLM seems to be optimized for extremly strong boost from the start and high speed sustain to hit targets way further out and only in a 180° half-sphere, so only 90° course corrections in a fairly big radius are needed. One being air- and the other ground-launched is also a factor.
Many such cases of Gaijin moving the line for Russian vehicles and armaments while saying ‘We believe this is wrong’ or ‘We believe this is a clear marketing lie’
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Ukrainian press releases have made some public statements about the IRIS-T SLM speeds, and those were rejected for not being reliable, yes, the country that’s operating IRIS-T right now is not a reliable source lmao.
It’s not some occult knowledge that it can achieve Mach 3, it’s probably going to be shut down under the same pretext or that “it does not come from the country of origin” which was the last excuse they used when we tried foreign sources (an excuse the devs have never used before).
It seems that devs are under some strict rules for rejecting any source that isn’t from Diehl themselves, so that buffs cannot be applied, I’m not very hopeful, but we have yet to see.
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This is actually a REALLY interesting theory, cuz it would actually explain quite a bit.
According to this paper from 2018, composite rocket fuel with an AL-Li additive exhibit increased performance and, interestingly, significantly reduced HCl production:
The increased performance of the motor is also supported by this study from 2023, along with it stating that Al-Li additives also reduce the size of the condensed combustion product(the metal particles in the exhaust)(CCP), which may also effect how visible the smoke trail is:
Spoiler
Which takes us to this ol’ piece of info regarding missile smoke trails:
Spoiler
Propellants with an Al-Li additive would be characterized as “metal fuel”, which would suggest it to still have a smoke trail due to the metal particles in the exhaust gases, this is why smokeless propellants eliminated the metal portion of the propellant despite the reduction in thrust, but in the case of an Al-Li propellant, it seems they chose to reduce both the HCl portion along with the CCP size of the contrail, which would explain why the IRIS-T seems to have more smoke than something like the AIM-9X, which appears to have gone all in on the “no smoke” idea, but less smoke than something like a Pantsir missile:
Picked these pics cuz they were all (except 1 of the 9X ones) in similar environments (deserts), which is important to match since temperature and humidity play a role in formation of smoke/contrail:
9X:
IRIS-T SLM:
Pantsir:
So an AL-Li composite propellant might actually explain 3 things; the high range, the reduced smoke, and the flames colour.
All that being said though, Id have to see proof that the rocket motor is in fact using a propellant with lithium inside. They definitely do exist commercially, such as ALITEC produced by the US company “Anduril”, claiming a 40% improvement in range:
But afaik, NAMMO Raufoss doesn’t openly state they have any lithium propellants, so at the end of the day, we’re speculating.
Lithium is also very light, 0.534g/cm^2, which could explain the marginal increase in weight despite the substantial increase in size over the baseline IRIS-T.
Fun little bit of coincidence; if you multiply the 148050Ns of impulse by the 40% improved range claimed by Anduril for ALITEC, you end up with 207270Ns of impulse and 3290N*s/kg, which clears the “200kN+” statement, granted I know range isnt 1:1 proportional to thrust though. I just think its an interesting coincidence👀
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Of note, the Ukrainians are not only “a country” operating the IRIS-T SLM, they are by far the country operating the most IRIS-T SLM’s, along with being the country with the most combat experience with the IRIS-T SLM…
They rejected sources from Diehl themselves as well, so I wouldnt put any faith in them accepting any source that would buff the missile in any way.
They’re clearly on strict rules to refuse any and all possible buffs to the IRIS-T missile family in general…😐
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it feels like what ever we do they wont change it.
It might be time for another [REDACTED]
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Okay this is just false, The Effective range of the Pantsir is like 12 to 13km at most in game. Anyone hit at 18km is a cooperative target (ergo flying straight)
At 12.5km, the 95Ya6 is still going faster that the top speed of all other missiles in this sheet.
At 15km, its still going faster than all the other missiles on the sheet are going at 7.5km (barring the SLM with its slow ramp up in speed).
If the Pantsir’s effective range is only “12-13km”, all the new SAM systems are dead in the water.
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Ergo a straight line, it bleeds a lot of speed in any kind of maneuver (as is the case of any missile).
The thing about the pantsir, although not modeled in game (3d wise anyways) is that the booster section get separated (afaik) after it uses up the 2.5s burn time and it essentially becomes a proxy dart for most of its flight
What are your sources that state that capability?
Russian mains always argue that the Pantsir is in-effective past 12km and it is just not true. I have flown extensively against the Pantsir and other top tier spaa systems and while the Pantsir may not have the same maneuverability throughout it’s entire flight, it is still easily very much a threat to wayyyyy further than 12 km.
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From the situation of the test suit, yes, all newly added top-level air defense units cannot achieve or exceed the performance of the Panstir, which means that the next version of the top-level land warfare still belongs to the KH38MT. Furthermore, if these air defense systems only have usable performance at close range, can it be considered that the introduction of these air defense systems is aimed at weakening the Eurofighter, rather than the Su-30 or Su-34. I have to start doubting whether the imbalance of air ground confrontation in the next version will further intensify
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Only a threat if you fly a straight line. As for the capability of separation? You can easily find images of intact booster section from the current war.
Not exactly primary, but it’s an EOD guide in the current conflict (probably one of many)
Is this the “12-13km effective range” you are talking about?? At the start of this video the F16 is flying AWAY from the Pantsir at 15km, he goes PAST 20km, turns AROUND, continues DODGING, while flying completely perpendicular to the missile at most points in his flight and STILL gets his by the Pantsir at 19km. I’m sorry but you do not know what you are talking about.
Hold up, lemme check something…
This you???
You are a Russian main that can barely scrape by with one of the best top tier nations at the moment yet you have been lurking on this IRIS-T SLM thread constantly arguing how the new SPAA’s are justified in their current sad state and that the Pantsir is not as OP as everyone states.
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i fly F-4E II at 12.0 and i can say that Pantsir effective range against highly manuvering target is 14km ish and below, beyond that is no no, only if u flying straight or things like that
whats makes pantsir so good is the radar, intercepting power(munnitions, planes), multi guided feature, good tracking and the 30mm are very useful
but thats base on my experiences, i played like 30 matches or so, 22 of them i face against RU
i died more to CAS than to SPAA tbh
Did you watch your own video? The target was barely maneuvering and only barely manage to hit?
I have an interest in the SLM, because unsurprisingly I am already at the 2A5 in the German TT and would also like to have SAMs? Or would that be against your narrative?
Wasnt the best missile defense, but there isnt a single other SAM in-game that could have hit that shot period, so stop pretending like thats nothing special.
So barely maneuvering is what you call a greater than 90 degree turn merely 3 seconds before the missile hits and doing a roll dodge as the missile hits? Russian mains say “all you have to do is fly perpendicular to the Pantsir at range” or “any maneuvering past 12 km and the missile won’t hit”. This F16C was at the absolute max range of the Pantsir, flying perpendicular, and maneuvering and you still refuse to admit it lol.
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I would add on and say that even the new SPAA’s won’t be able to make that shot. If they are going subsonic by 12km, they definitely aren’t doing this at 19km lol.