+1 would really like to see this (I wonder if this could work as part of a regional tree). Any plans for the air and naval forces?
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An interesting and well-structured proposal, but I imagine it would only really work in a combined Middle Eastern / Arab tree of some sort, for which various proposals exist.
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Iraq and Syria have a lot of unique mad max like vehicles
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There are a lot of modifications of vehicles. I think these vehicles should be dolled out to differing nations as many of these vehicles have foreign origins and sould be given to there birth nations. This would be ideal GE, Event, Squadron, and filler vehicles. But especially for event vehicles as no one would be too upset but they will be fun in my opinion to see them rumbling around in infantry mode.
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bro this is all copypaste -1
Having done lots of research on Iraqi armor for my METO tech tree, there are a few things I’d like to point out here.
- The Iraqi AML-60 is not an AML 60-7 but rather an AML 60-20 mounting an MG151/20 coaxially.
- Iraqi BTR-4Es did not receive Barrier missiles. Instead they use 9M113 Konkurs ATGMs.
- A few important vehicles were left out, including Iraq’s only attempt at a domestic MBT. These include:
M53/59 (P793)
An upgrade to existing Iraqi Praga SPAAGs which swaps the 30mm guns for Chinese 37mm P793 cannons, improving firepower and overall modernization, along with standardizing for their modern military.
TR-580
(Image is of a Romanian example)
Though they likely only spent a short time in service and some argue they never made it into service at all, Iraq briefly had possession of around 100-200 Romanian TR-580s. These play like T-55As but have a much thicker frontal plate.
OT-62/Cascavel
An improvised light tank built by putting the turret from an EE-9 Cascavel on an OT-62 TOPAS APC. Built during the Iran-Iraq War and was knocked out sometime later in the conflict.
Al-Kafil-1
Iraq’s only attempt at a domestic MBT, built in 2014. Based on a Type 59, a huge number of upgrades were carried out. These included add-on armor, ERA, anti-RPG chains, a turret bustle for ammo stowage, a roof-mounted RCWS with a 12.7mm Browning M2HB, and an overhauled FCS with thermals, a laser rangefinder, and independent sights for the commander via the RCWS.
You can check out more info here at the suggestion post: Middle East Treaty Organization (METO) Tech Tree: The Middle East Unites!
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Thank you. I originally planned this tree as Baathist Iraq Sub-tree I.e cutoff at 2003. More modern additions were last minute. Will edit soon.
Update: Edits complete.
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You’re welcome! If there’s anything else I can help with, feel free to ask!
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Overall +1 but there’s some critiques, mainly that there’s a lot of copy n paste vehicles while greatly lacking in the unique modifications that Iraq did, particularly on their MT-LB, BTR-50/OT-62 and especially their EE-9 Cascavel as examples. Iraq also operated multiple BMP-1 variants including Ex-Swedish, Ex-Greek BMP-1’s and even a unique armour package for their BMP-1
You can find them in the thread below
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Thank you bro, I am beginning to work on an updated version of the tree.
Edit: It is done.
I would strongly argue that, with proper filtering, this could easily be added as a single-line sub-tree. However, many omissions would still have to be made, even from the version of the tree I created.
There are only eight true (by definition) “copy-paste” vehicles in this tree, out of about 50. Many of the other vehicles may be similar to ones already in the game, but they feature unique upgrades, visual differences, or both, which have not yet been represented in War Thunder (Read the “Vehicles In-Depth” section).
For which nation, though? No space (or need) in the Soviet tree, and it doesn’t fit anywhere else.
My personal opinion is that Iraq should be added to Yugoslavia if Yugoslavia is ever introduced to War Thunder. Otherwise, only time will tell, and the final decision is up to Gaijin. In fact, when I originally started building the Ba’ath-era Iraq version of this tree, I had Yugoslavia in mind as the host nation.
The air forces could be integrated and mixed very well. Many of the air defence systems used by Yugoslavia were also used by Iraq (some Yugoslav vehicles (that were also in Iraqi service) could simply receive Iraqi camouflage options instead of being added as separate vehicles, helping save space for the other vehicles in the Iraqi sub-tree). At the same time, Iraq could bring several vehicles and systems that Yugoslavia could only dream of having.
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Forgot to specify what TT to go to (Spoiler: none of the existing TT’s) Since the USSR is a large enough TT on it’s own and if it needs a Subtree, there’s always Belarus, maybe the Central Asian nations like Uzbekistan. And China already has Pakistan with Bangladesh and Myanmar as potential options as well.
For Future TT’s, there’s 3 options:
The various Arab TT proposals: Self Explanatory
Yugoslav TT: Iraq and Yugoslavia have a strong working relationship together, both diplomatically and Militarily. Obviously there’s the OT M-60MP but there’s also the MiG-21’s and MiG-23ML’s Iraq sent to Yugoslavia for refurbishment. The main problem is that there’s better alternatives, mainly Libya. Iraq is not a bad option either
South Africa via the Jordanian (maybe Jordanian-Lebanese?) Subtree: The one country that Iraq has the most affinity with is in the region is Jordan. Though this also depends if you are a Sunni or a Shi’ite (the latter has a stronger affinity with Iran than Jordan). For starters, both used to be run by the same Monarchial Dynasty (The Hashemites), even though Iraq did overthrow the Kingdom by the Socialists headed by Abd al-Karim Qasim. Relationships did recover after the Socialists were successfully overthrown by the Ba’athists. Relationship further improved when Saddam Hussein was in power as both materially supported each other. Saddam Hussein even gifting some Soviet vehicles to the Jordanians such as the BMP-2 and Shlika. The BTR-94’s were also Ex-Jordanian. Even after the fall of the Ba’athists, Jordan and Iraq worked closely together against the War against Terror especially during the rise of ISIL. I also mentioned Lebanon in the equation since the Jordanians also materially supported the Lebanese government, even sending some of their old stock (e.g Charioteers) to Lebanon.
Finally Iraq does have some connection to South Africa, mainly with Gerad Bull (Canadian Weapons Engineer who worked for Apartheid South Africa for decades) in it’s development in the Al Fao, Al Manjoon SPG’s and Project Babylon Gun. Also the T-55 Enigma is similar to a armour package Kentron (a South African Defense Firm) had offered, meaning that there is a possibility that the South Africans may have an involvement in the Enigma upgrade package, not just the T-55. However i cannot entirely confirm that either so don’t quote me on that.
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In my opinion, your second proposal is a little too complex, while the Yugoslav merger is much more straightforward.
I also did not quite understand the Libya part. I do not remember Libya having that many unique vehicles, or vehicles and aircraft that were not already in Iraqi possession.
Yeah, the justification for the South African TT via Jordan can be a little bit schizo, I’m just stating it as another potential option.
For the Libya part. I mentioned that due to Libya, Yugoslavia and it’s successor states (particularly Serbia) have a strong working relationship. The Libyans even buying some Yugoslav Aircraft such as the G-2 Galeb & J-21 Jastreb. Libya does have some domestic upgrades, vehicles we don’t have in game and vehicles that they exclusively operate such as the EE-9 M3, KrAZ Cougar (9M133), Centurion Mk.5/2 AVRE, field modified Ratels, UAE built Pantsirs on MAN chassis instead of KAMAZ’s. The Libyans also modify their MiG-23’s to carry French SAMP-T unguided bombs and the Libyan Su-22M3 is different from the Syrian one. I could keep going but i’ll stop here since it’s getting off topic
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Does kafil was on purpose having appearance of merkava or was it just inspiration? Similar thing with Iranian magaches modified to look like abrams.
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That’s likely just a coincidence, but I suppose it is possible.
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