In the absence of a Radio Operator/Machine Gunner

[Cpt_Bel_V]

Normal gamedesign → those roles were not filled by those tank crew mens until the apparition of reliable and portatives radios.

Even into the 1940 year, every armies had only 1 tank out of 5 using long-range radio, into German,French or English forces,… (not even talking about the Russian one, which Radio number was even more limited)

So having a radio per tank, and filled by Commander aswell is pretty much fair to everyone.

For gunner on aircrafts → i don’t see how they can be used on a fighter for exemple, which doesn’t have a turret, or the crew for such intended role.

In such you’re complainning of a waste, but you should read those skills first,…

In my opinion:
Important tank crew mans are :
Loader/Driver/Commander/Gunner (in this very order) + (mostly the Specific skills and repair skills)

And for aircrafts crews:
→ pilot is a priority over everything

• Rank of reparation
• Speed of reparation
• (+Speed of reload if you play arcade only)

Every other skills are easily compensated:
→ aircraft gunner can be used manually, with little practice can be very efficient.
→ artillery calls are useless after Rank2, unless it hits directly,… and even there, it is only tracks most of the time.

EDIT : i just saw you do have 10k battles already, but it seems you’re ignorant on many points of the game.

Well in a way, those points of the game are not explainned clearly.

[Mr_Po0nT45tiC]

it only became evident when I started looking across different tech trees of several nations and found similarities towards top tiers.

Again, the point is, after their useful state, there should be re-allocation of points where the player has spent them on towards the higher tiers.

Take for example USA’s F4-Phantom II / F14 Tomcat (dual seater with WSO & RIO), how do you allocate points in that situation?

How about F16 Falcons and A-10 Warthogs?

How about AH-64 Apache Helicopters?

Indirect fire of tracked/mobile artillery or SPGs are just being implemented so, I think the use of Radio Operator can be made relevant again, but on a 3 or 4 man tank crew?

[Cpt_Bel_V]

You don’t read what i’ve said do you?

Radio is taken by Commander when there is no other specialized Crew.

For aircrafts, i don’t see a gunner becoming a pilot, and the other way around,… so it makes no senses.

And if you want more points, go in lower BR aircrafts make kills, and you’ll have more points to allocate.

The F-4/F-16/A-10 or AH-64 Differences makes no problems → the scheme to help your gameplay is the same:
1st: pilot skills (G-tolerance+Stamina)

2nd: “ground crew” (Rank and Speed for repair/ Speed for rearm/maintainning weapons)

3rd: pilot skills (Vision skills : both)

4th: gunner(number of Expert gunner+G-tolerance+Stamina)

5th all the rest
Then you’ll adapt your way to play to the aircraft itself.

Also:

@K6un23r

Indirect fire of tracked/mobile artillery or SPGs are just being implemented so, I think the use of Radio Operator can be made relevant again, but on a 3 or 4 man tank crew?

No,…
Vehicules that can possibly do indirect fire are introduced in the game, but no system currently helps you in doing that → no skill allowed/required for.

Radio-operator is only capable of :
Maintainning the Map update with your allies
Calling artillery strike (AI)

Also if you really want to do indirect fire today, you have to do all calculation yourself → heading(direction)/angle(for distance)

Maps are shorts, and therefore indirect fire is really limited as angle for such Shots are very high depending on the gun abilities.

The game is not set for indirect fire gameplay (and most likely never will)

@K6un23r

Again, the point is, after their useful state, there should be re-allocation of points where the player has spent them on towards the higher tiers.

And you’ll go to a worker and says
“give back your ability to handle X tool! I want to give the ability to X with the secretary”

I’m sure it works that way IRL too,…

Stop right there mate,…

And more information here:
https://wiki.warthunder.com/Crew_skills#Shared_crew_skills

[Mr_Po0nT45tiC]

You know, you didn’t answer the question here:

@K6un23r

So these stats are wasted then and effective only up to mid tree?

And you quoted wiki where I investigated my information regarding top tier fighters with bombing roles

@Cpt_Bel_V

And more information here:
Crew skills - War Thunder Wiki

Which just reinforces my claim that the stats are wasted. Again you’re not just considering the role fulfilled by an extra crewman, but you failed to comprehend that stat points are allocated to them for what? Calling effective artillery strikes? So the commander calls the artillery strike at higher tiers, but the stats is not reflected in their point allocation because they’re on the Radio Operator/MGunner.

And about Gunner Crews on a bomber, when are you going to deal with that with an F-111? Add another aircraft? You’re missing the point and you’re just driving the document and gameplay without considering what is being questioned.

[Cpt_Bel_V]

They never are wasted,… as you can go back whenever you want to play old stuff, or play the new bomber added.

Also, and as told:

@Cpt_Bel_V

The F-4/F-16/A-10 or AH-64 Differences makes no problems → the scheme to help your gameplay is the same:
1st: pilot skills (G-tolerance+Stamina)

2nd: “ground crew” (Rank and Speed for repair/ Speed for rearm/maintainning weapons)

3rd: pilot skills (Vision skills : both)

4th: gunner(number of Expert gunner+G-tolerance+Stamina)

5th all the rest
Then you’ll adapt your way to play to the aircraft itself.

@Cpt_Bel_V

Every other skills are easily compensated:
→ aircraft gunner can be used manually, with little practice can be very efficient.

There is no waste if you do play WWII sometimes, there is less waste if you know where/how to allocate points for a fast Grind.

Finally you still think that :

@Cpt_Bel_V

And you’ll go to a worker and says
“give back your ability to handle X tool! I want to give the ability to X with the secretary”

Which is not possible → there is then no way to convert or re-add those points in any form.

[Cpt_Bel_V]

@K6un23r

You’re missing the point and you’re just driving the document and gameplay without considering what is being questioned.

Because the question itself is out-of Gamedesign lines,…

[Mr_Po0nT45tiC]

@Cpt_Bel_V

There is no waste if you do play WWII sometimes,

There you go. You just can’t admit it’s wasted and you had to qualify your explanation.

I really could’t care about your tool example because the tech trees was designed to progress forward. I haven’t really had much chance of going “backward” because, there’s just so many tech trees to progress FORWARD

[Cpt_Bel_V]

And yet your still not telling me how you’ll re-use such skills.

You wanna add a guy in the Air-entry of your F-16, with an M249 LMG?

It is not possible, using point in such skills is a waste that helped you grind up the TT,…
so it’s a waste only in your mind…

You already does have the Radio-operator integrated to the Commander if there is no Radio-operator (only special skills are)

[Sarcastic_Bullet]

@K6un23r

Who gets the “points” allocated to him/her?

The crew as a whole. In ground this is the way that it is treated, number of people in a crew is irelevant.

In air crews, the second tab is only for defensive gunners, if there are none, it is useless.

[Mr_Po0nT45tiC]

@Cpt_Bel_V

And yet your still not telling me how you’ll re-use such skills.

I did not write the code for the game… nor did I design it.

I’m just pointing out wasted stats towards end of tech tree and missing mechanics that integrate the stats

@Sarcastic_Bullet

In air crews, the second tab is only for defensive gunners, if there are none, it is useless.

See? He has the same idea. It’s useless and thus wasted at the end of the tech tree.

[Sarcastic_Bullet]

@K6un23r

It’s useless and thus wasted at the end of the tech tree.

It’s wasted only if you use vehicles in that crew slot that do not benefit from it. I don’t get what point you’re trying to make. If I have an air crew with all 75 points in stats it will be used to play bombers usually that benefit those stats. Those are usually the last stats that people put points in in aircrews.

[Cpt_Bel_V]

@K6un23r

See? He has the same idea. It’s useless and thus wasted at the end of the tech tree.

Gunners skills are wasted for every aircrafts without gunners → 70% of game vehicules.

→ and there is no reason it should changes,…
You’re pointing on a “pseudo-waste” because it useless once your playing at toptier,…

Toptier is not everything in the game

[Cpt_Bel_V]

@K6un23r

Indirect fire of tracked/mobile artillery or SPGs are just being implemented

you refer to such kind of gameplay?

High Angle Artillery Strike - War Thunder

see how he worked it out? if not rewatch it until you understand it all (not hard, when you know physics)

[Mr_Po0nT45tiC]

No.

You read this

Ballistics Calculator for Self Propelled Howitzers

poll Currently in game we have a wide variety of Self-Propelled howitzers, each having their own pros and cons. However they are primarily used in a direct fire role, something they were not designed to do. This is where a Ballistics Calculator would come into play. There are many ways to implement this mechanic in order to maintain balance and effectiveness in the matchmaker, allowing it to be adjusted and tweaked if it is underperforming or overperforming. The way a mechanic like this would …

[Cpt_Bel_V]

That will not be implemented, most calculators works fro distances superior to map design.

[Muscle_Chad]

@Cpt_Bel_V

No one

So what vehicles am I losing out on? I have a range of nations up to BR 6.3 for ground realistic.

I thought the stats affect the overall crew? If they’re going to waste, then how do I know which vehicles are good for radio stats? Just ones with 5 crew in them?

[Muscle_Chad]

@Sarcastic_Bullet

The crew as a whole.

I believe this is what the game itself says. Crew points don’t go to waste, they are spread out.

[Cpt_Bel_V]

@Cpt_Bel_V

more information here:
https://wiki.warthunder.com/Crew_skills#Shared_crew_skills

Read this and you’ll know pretty much everything about Crewskills

[Mr_Po0nT45tiC]

Some players despite their “knowledge” are not capable of comprehension.

The document listed here explicitly states that the stats apply to AI gunners. It can therefore be concluded that in the absence of AI gunners, the stats does not apply. It can further be inferred that Fire Precision and Fire Accuracy will not apply due to absence of AI gunners.

As for tank crews the stats on

• Keen Vision
• Field Repair
• Agility
• Vitality

are not distributed to the rest of the crew as they have their own similar stat and can no longer accommodate extra points beyond what is allocated for them by the game.

If any of them try to repudiate this claim, it’s proof of their critical thinking skills.

[Cpt_Bel_V]

And it’s normal to be like this,…

IN REAL LIFE (from which is based the game):

Do YOU gain more Skills for your work, when one of your colleague is absent?

Tell me why you want those skills to be re-used in other Roles?

And as i’m fucking telling you already → there is no reason to share those skills,…

So what are you trying to get/trying to prove?