Hull Armor of the M1 Abrams

Yeah, they were truly bigoted and even to this day must be. The whole book is full of drama that was built around the creation of Abrams Tank, they hated the British because they came up with new type of armor that they did have to adapt and hated the Germans as they created much better cannon which they also had to adapt. Even a very nice TV series can be made based on the whole story if Hollywood was interested :D Also, it’s nice that military individuals didn’t hesitate to talk about these historical details of events instead of preferring being silent.


It’s actually kind of funny, the Army Combat systems handbook shows about an equal amount of information about armor upgrades regarding Sep v2 and Sep v3. Both brochures say improved armor and pictures with weight simulation plates. I’d say the sepv2 brochure includes slightly more detail as it mentions armor improvements on the front and side.

The Sepv3 is from the 2016 edition and later publications of the handbook don’t mention
any more information on the armor upgrades. But all things considered why would anyone believe the Sepv3 has better armor and not the Sepv2 when the same level evidence exists for both.


Unfortunately “improved armor” is not an acceptable word for Gaijin. They will say “Improved how? Maybe it just can survive multiple hits in succession which isn’t something modeled in WT”

SEPv3 will have no armor protection increase, and people need to realize that now because it is going to throw the forum into an uproar come its introduction because a lot of people are falsely assuming Gaijin will increase the protection.

They have all but said they will not without hard numbers of protection increase.


i’ve no idea why would people prefer the abrams to stay at this condition, the abrams is literally an easy kill just for people to research their tanks + modifications by killing them, i mean USA can’t just make a tank and say hey guys i got this and this in my tank just for other nations to make new shells + new variants just to defeat it, and this topic has alot of reliable sources that can take underconsideration. It’s easy for gaijin to implement a soviet tank or a russian tank with all its informations since they can just ask the kremlin about it.

And i don’t believe a nation such as United States of America would make it’s official known worldwide tank this easy to kill.

Oh trust me I know and I know it isn’t enough by itself. This post was more for people who say Sepv3 definitely has upgraded armor but Sepv2 doesn’t, even though the same level of evidence exists for both. We really only have brief and vague statements with pictures of armor sim plates.

We’re never getting a primary source at least not for the next 20-30 years. Which is why I think @SPANISH_AVENGER idea of changing how armor values are given is so important.


It’s a terrible idea.

You know how most people on this thread consider Soviet/Russian tanks to be hyped up nonsense? Does anyone really want vehicles stats to be based solely on propaganda and reputation? It opens a can of worms, this game is close enough to the History Channel as it stands, really no point in opening the floodgate.

As an example.

Some of these estimates are great, especially the Lakowski one, which is surprisingly academic, meanwhile lots of other estimates are the exact type of more or less baseless nonsense speculation pulled from thin air (completely typical for military “science”). If War Thunder transitions from factually informed designs and just jumps headlong into deranged babbling of “experts” like Clancy, we might as well just rename it to Call of Duty and let go of any pretense about realism or history.

You’ve got a right to your opinion, but as it stands it’s either they work with what we have available or we just sit and accept the fact that as it stands the Abrams, regardless of which variant, will see little to no improvement because there is a distinct lack of primary sources with hard numbers. That’s the problem with implementing modern hardware is that a lot of it is in fact going to be guess work due to things still being classified.

And Gaijin’s guesswork ain’t exactly the greatest considering the entire Stinger debacle, where they concluded a missile that is rated to catch a target maneuvering at 7Gs can’t do so because of the control surfaces looking mildly similar to the Igla.


Mostly due to some visible LoS thickness increases, but knowing our luck Gaijin’ll conclude NGAP has no DU and the increased LoS is to meet a similar effective thickness as DU armor. Because reasons.


I don’t personally have any issue with Gaijin’s reasoning around Stingers.

It’s a simple matter of them using whichever missile they have the most data about as a basis for understanding how things work. I don’t know what else you can ask from them if we want to keep things realisic. I can’t personally fault them for that approach, it’s about as grounded as you can get and minimises the speculation.

I agree they should acknowledge that Stinger and Mistral use PID and not bang-bang as it is called, although I’m not sure if that will give the missiles the G overload that many people expect.

They’ve not currently acknowledged sufficient evidence to accept that Mistral or Stinger are radically different from Igla.

That’s the crux. The “Red empire” fell and the blue empire didn’t, so we have information about one but not the other. Alea iacta est.

Thank you for being respectful, hopefully I’m having respectable opinions. I in turn respect the research and effort done. I looked into these matters myself because I am curious, I feel even a bit sad that I’ve not been able to find the conclusive evidence that many seek.

I understand your concern here. I don’t think Russian equipment would benefit very much as they have a lot more primary sources and this suggestion is for vehicles that don’t have them.

I agree that “experts” such as Clancy and some others shouldn’t be used. But I really don’t think reputable estimates combined with secondary sources would be so far from reality. I certainly believe it would be better than using the 20-30 year old sources that Gaijin currently uses.

Without a rework, the future of nato armor in warthunder is going to continue to be a series of outrages and drama for every country. Which is why I like the suggestion from Spanish so much. It has flaws but I haven’t seen a better alternative thus far.


No. Factually incorrect. If the interior metal is softer than the external ceramic and depleted uranium sandwhich, it helps act to stop a shell shattering when entering the crew compartment.

I see I’ll need to make yet another TikTok for everyone to grasp it.

PS: See turret bustle as well.


Also like, just straight discipline to wear your flak, and the abrams is ACd unlike many other tanks, right?

The flak protects against impact, extra spall, emergency dismount etc. Other nations that dont use spall liners dont wear flaks.

Thats why the US military is good, because they have good order and discipline to get their guys to do uncomfortable things even when its not “necessary”. Weve all done “stupid” things in the military, but we only call it that because it makes you uncomfortable or its heavy, or my back hurts, or my feet hurt etc. Its all for a purpose, and it all enhances the warfighter

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The AC is for the computers. Source: Abrams tanker on yt and he didn’t sound very happy about it so it’s probably true


I identify as one of those tankers. There is no AC. See me damn near going down in 145 degree heat exhaustion after 54 hours operating in Ramadi.

Edit: And I was wearing Class IV SAP-I plates instead of our flak vests.


Lmao. Makes sense tbh. Not the first time the military was ok with you being hot though, hot and alive is better than comfortable and dead


Heat still kills though, still. Insane they didn’t put in ACs for the middle east

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I think the Marines before they ditched tanks had some sort of liquid cooling vest system they were implementing on their M1A1s, but well I imagine that was a pain in the ass.


Never made it to us, plus how to keep liquid cool in that environment? Hot Coke, anybody?

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I remember seeing that! Probably sucked under the flak. But theres definitely ways to make that work comfortably

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I bet it wouldve been like how PC liquid cooling works. The vest would have tubes, and youd wear that vest under your flak. The liquid would have a heat exchanger itd feed back to in the tank thatd recool it. Pretty smart tbh

Edit: although youd be “hooked in” so i bet itd really only be good for driver or when not gunning. Youd need some type of QD system in case of combat emergency and when not idle

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