Abrams have survived hits from RPG-29s lol.
…and yeah, thousands of tanks were lost in the Syrian civil war, lol.:
You can find every destroyed Abrams ever documented…even counting the recoverable losses, and over the entire service of the Abrams, the total was less than 100 “destroyed.” Going off the old LostArmour site before they took down other conflicts. Guess the contrast was a little too embarrassing for the Russian armor. XD
kek
Russian deathtrap enjoyers big mad. XD
Multiple nations purchased T-72
Multiple conflict
Losses duo to destroyed or abandoned because it’s actual fighting
→ Procceed to set it’s perfomance
No country bought M1 or any US vehicles ever got into serious conflict and face real-weapons (because they are the guy who made conflict)
No Abrams destroyed
→ Self-earning
It’s really impressive how hard Russian tanks die. More Russian tanks have violently disintegrated in under two years than Abrams have ever been knocked out in battle over the entirety of its service life. XD
Unfortunately we lack sufficient evidence to disprove their conclusions.
I’m curious what you think about the information I posted above, where an M1A1 with 19mm steel added to the front turret is seen as interchangeable with an M1A1HA?
In other words, accurately demonstrating known design flaws in T-90 welded turrets.
So we should ignore generational advantage engagements.
But here it’s back to 73 Easting and so on.
As I understand, coalition forces included AMX-30’s and Challengers, of which none were lost. Does this make them indestructible? There’s nuance to these things and you don’t seem to acknowledge it in many cases.
Not hard to find Leopards and (Obviously monkey models without the magic DU) Abrams getting blown up by a variety of things.
War Thunder would completely stop being of any interest to me if it just became a game so totally dedicated to portraying the already extremely common US military historiographic perspective. There are enough other games slavishly devoted to such a monotonous chanting of “U S A” ad infinitum.
Very extremely neutral OSINT moment.
We will wait to see if two nations equipped with Leopards or export Abrams engage in some kind of peer conflict to get a comparable situation.
For now you’re not speaking to actually meaningful comparisons, but some kind of “gotcha” ragebait or whatever. It’s not meaningful or nuanced analysis.
I respect how you have provided significant evidence centrally related to the topic of Abrams armour.
I wonder if the tankies can find the photos of the claimed Abrams losses…
Something something no sources.
Nah man you dont get it, the world they live in, they can machine gun the breach into nothing.
No, they were not, trials began in 2015 and in 2017/2018 they started being procured, all the contract is it becoming formal, i.e. M1A1s were already being upgraded to SEPv3 in 2017 and 2018, this is also why the Army weight document has them being from 2017:
FYI 1 - 5 is the normal figure for testbed (usually 5), as of the 2018 budget they would have had 215 SEPv3s before the contract in 2020, so no they were not still testing the SEPv3 in 2018 it was in service.
Most my wandering down rabbit hulls convinced me the same regarding gulf war era M1A1’s.
Front page to show unclassified
There was a massive push to find out what caused the gulf war sickness in the late 90s to mid 2000s and the military was keen to prove it wasn’t linked and keep their armor/shells, there’s a lot of unclassified papers and research out there involving its safety and radiation levels.
If the hull of the gulf war era A1’s had DU it should be mentioned in the 1996 guidelines in dealing with DU if the encapsulating steel is compromised or the various studies involving radiation exposure to the crew.
It did surprise me how relatively thin those plates are, there’s two images of the same uparmored tank on alamy, the bolts on the side of the breech make a good reference.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-23rd-march-1991-a-us-army-soldier-sits-on-his-m1a1-abrams-tank-in-83202581.html?imageid=452D9ECD-9F94-492F-AE78-29514A195A69&p=257184&pn=1&searchId=1bc319a75625aa2a4c8e66912da884a2&searchtype=0
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-23rd-march-1991-us-army-soldiers-with-their-m1a1-abrams-tank-in-the-83202579.html?imageid=4F00C339-D235-4638-9C2F-1D9BE75BF612&p=257184&pn=1&searchId=c2509b379c06755c48de322fa29927be&searchtype=0
Its just the hole I dug down hoping something would lead to the A2 and all I’ve stumbled across is the previously mentioned BRL-2 hull
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA300522.pdf
The findings of the ongoing war in Ukraine have led to the cancellation of research on 130+mm guns. This is because even the DM53 projectile, if it hits, will penetrate the armor of any Russian tank, including the T-72B3 and T-90.
I love most that the US Military response was to swear blind that it wasn’t the radioactive metal making people sick, by being extremely secretive and only allowing military doctors (who have sworn an oath of alleigance to the military, compromising their objectivity) to talk about it and explain why actually radioactive metal is harmless.
You still have people today insisting that DU is fine and claims to the contrary are propaganda from Big Tungsten.
It’s really odd how there’s no up-armouring of the hull. You can almost say they either didn’t upgrade the hull with HA package, they considered M1A1 basic to have good enough hull armour, or just don’t expect the hull to get it.
In any case, this all only provides evidence that either no hull armour improvements exist or it’s so marginal nobody cares. Additionally it also suggest hull armour isn’t a priority for upgrade programs.
My belief is that the Abrams is actually considered by the decision makers to have “good enough” hull armour and that it’s so unlikely to be hit that it doesn’t justify the costs of upgrading the fleet, or it’s not a high priority in any case.
Just more evidence of no additional KE/CE thickness for the hull composites.
Bro i don’t know if you don’t understand what procurement means but this is not approved production. These tanks that your trying to point out is for testing. At no point was the M1A2C approved for production in this.
It is reflected in this article here:
The SEPv3 did go into service until 2020.
No where does it say these M1s with add-on armour were interchangeable to M1A1 HAs, all its says is that some 800 M1A1s were up armoured.
Regardless, going by what Gaijin has for RHA (all we really have) we can make some pretty good assumptions that 19mm of additional RHA made it no where close to the M1A1HA i.e. the Chally 2 has 70mm RHA in the LFP and that only gives about 85mm of KE protection against APFSDS 19mm likely didn’t overall change much.
I love most that the US Military response was to swear blind that it wasn’t the radioactive metal making people sick, by being extremely secretive and only allowing military doctors (who have sworn an oath of alleigance to the military, compromising their objectivity) to talk about it and explain why actually radioactive metal is harmless.
Considering not even the UN has been able to prove it with their extensive attempts to do just that (extremely extensive reports on DU from warzones), this seems to be true, the dangerous part about DU are actually its heavy metal properties not the radiation.
That aside, you do know in comparison to DU research on Tungsten ammo/armour is pretty limited right?
215 tanks were not for testing, the SEPv3 entered service in 2017/2018, which is why the army’s M1A2 document on their weight states 2017:
Bro i don’t know if you don’t understand what procurement means but this is not approved production.
You can link me whatever you want, the US had already put it into service when they started buying 100s of them prior to 2020.
That’s not even true.
It was known since US acquired a T-80U and the UK acquired a T-80U and T-80UD in the 1990’s.
Research on 130mm+ guns was a high priority in the late 80’s because of projections about what radical variants would look like. Possibly also fears about limits to what more penetration could be gained with existing calibre, cannons from only new projectile technology.
These guns were never about penetrating any T-64, T-72 or T-80 variant. They were shelved when the cold war “ended” but were evidently put back into active research when they became more aware about various late Soviet prototypes (the very same vehicles those guns were designed in anticipation of) and also the T-14 being revealed.
It’s a fact since KF51 was shown with 130mm as an example. Clearly those shelved designs were re-developed in anticipation of more armoured targets.
I posted a quote from the general stating this.
Feel free to read that post.
Since most export munitions use Tungsten and Germany AFAIK specifically avoids DU, I’m not sure that’s necessarily the case.
Bro, you have no clue how new equipment is created. That is pretty obvious. Here a list to show you that the army was test these tanks.
Until a contract is awarded there is no production. It is literally in the name fielding plan.
Except he didn’t state that at all and no where in there does it state these 19mm made it equal to the M1A1 HA.
Whoops
I’m sure the massive radical spikes in birth defects anywhere DU has been used a purely a coincidence.
So no proof? Pure conjecture, you do know how many different chemicals were used during these wars right? It could literally be anything. Point of fact, we didn’t see similar issues in any other warzone that DU was used in i.e. if this were true it would have already affected Iraq from the gulf war, but it apparently didn’t why is that? It does state what I already stated however i.e. that inhaling it is what makes it dangerous.
Since most export munitions use Tungsten and Germany AFAIK specifically avoids DU, I’m not sure that’s necessarily the case.
It is the case, however the few studies that have been done do state it may even be carcinogenic, there is next to no research on Tungsten ammo/armour. It being used by other countries means next to nothing.
I have already read all of these, like I said in my first reply to you, M1s started being upgraded to SEPv3s in 2017/2018, 215 SEPv3 is still currently more then what GDLS has made since 2020.
And the few they did those years are only concept tanks. They are not in service/fielded. The tanks did not get fielded till 2020.
