A source which you interpreted in a way to further your way of thinking or to simply push that you are “correct”. No one agrees with you as you are skewing what all of that content means.
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If that’s so, why does the T-80U (and newer) still have a 6.5 sec reload, instead of the historically accurate 6.0 sec reload?
The Vcc 80/60 is hated in by gaijin, and those of us who own the Aubl 74 HVG will tell you it’s not better.
It’s a fact gaijin hates Italy. They won’t buff m300, and it has the spall of a 20mm cannon, meanwhile something like the fox is more akin to a nuclear bomb.
The Aubl 74 HVG needs a reload buff.
But both the Aubl and Vcc 80/60 need a spall buff.
Usually I can agree Alvis, but no, the m300 / 60mm cannon on the Aubl 74 HVG or the Vcc 80/60 could use a buff. It makes no sense the Fox (7.7) spalls more than the (8.0 or 9.3) tanks.
It’s a 30mm vs a 60mm
How does T-80U reload rate relevant to HSTV-L ammo here ?
As for reload rate I remember somebody in old forum mention that overall reload rate (from tank manual) as a whole also included stuff like gun auto-aligning for reloading the round as well as the time it take to re-aligning with FCS/Gunner sight in order to fire. and also the time it take to cycle the shell around. (Gaijin add this)
Not to mention most if not all vehicles also didn’t have maximum fastest fire rate available to them. with example being JGSDS Type90,Type10 . Or any vehicles with human loader that could do lap-loading technique.
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It’s relevant as the HSTVL and RDF just got a pretty good buff.
The T-80U (and newer) auto loader was set to load at a standard rate of 6.0 secs (reason it was vertical instead of horizontal). I remember reading several documents to point this to being the correct reload speed even with gun re alignment.
Note: no tank has to do alignment in game including the Hstvl
There was a few sources 3-4 that claimed the T80U auto loader could reload faster than 6.0 secs, but due to reliability concerns they kept it a 6.0 secs instead of making it load as fast as 5.0 secs.
The HSTVL can reload at .5 seconds but for the same exact reason as you just mentioned, it was limited to 1 round a second.
Ask Gaijin
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This entire mechanic is delusion.
Assuming we model the armor as tool steel (lmao) you need to be hit at 1450 m/s for this “9 degree” angle.
If the target is class 4 RHA, like on Abrams, the angle to ricochet is about 4.5 degrees.
This “9 degree ricochet” is a hand out that is at odds with APFSDS research. Actually, if we look at the chart of 3BM15 (steel rod) we find that the critical angle is 82 degrees at 1500 m/s
The real critical angle to ricochet, for muzzle velocity (1700 m/s) is 3.5 degrees
Ah edit;
Small mistake this is for an infinite target; a finite target like Abrams glacis is just gone, since it bends under load, unlike the infinite one.
If anyone wants to report this I’ll provide the source.
God I can’t wait till people figure out nearly all Shermans have turret front armor thicker than the geometry itself.
Didnt spookton ranted about this before
He gave quote reliable sources and basically some some declassified document i believe(not 100% sure i just get a hold on this) but gajin refused and tell him to give them the factual and from the sources of the sources evidence that it can do that
Because the rate of fire for Soviet tanks isn’t the loading time but rather for a complete cycle (minus "press button +0.3s), and autoloader skipping 1-2 rounds.
While NATOids insist on just the loading figure.
Sure let’s go with that, the gun recoils +1s, so if he loads in 5s the reload is 6.
And elevation time, since it defaults to a loading angle.
The time to just load a round is about 5 seconds in a T-72. Baseline.
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I did, I got told it was “for balancing reasons”
Which… is odd, as the hstvl was good before its buff.
But historically, a 6.0 sec reload is accurate for the T-80Us
Still not relevant to the ammo topic.
And as others said the source for HSTVL reload rate are 0.5sec. But as you can see we got 1sec
The only reason Gaijin didn’t model canon re-alignment animation is because it wouldn’t improve anything much besides being more realistic and would waste time to make others stuff that could get them Money.
However it seem that they did include those time in reload rate set as a whole. As i’ve said most vehicles aren’t having maximum fire rate either.
The only one i can think of (that got buff reload rate) are StrumTiger with 380mm rocket. For the sake of gameplay.
The NATO reload rate are also full cycle. For example when Abrams loader yell UP! after he pull up lever. It mean that he already finished reloading and already in clear position out of gun breech. So loader won’t get hit by cannon breech when it was firing.
As for elevation time.
Since Gaijin didn’t model them as a visible things. But it seem they did include them in reload rate.
Again just like many others most vehicles aren’t having maximum fire rate either.
You got a reload, which it is capable of, but also possibly can damage / jam the loader if it was any faster. In the video Spookston even posted, made mention of that.
The USA tanks pretty much have their maximum fire rate with the best crews in the world.
(Such as the abrams: it cannot reload realistically in 5 secs, the average time is hovering around 6.57 secs which was derived from videos of tank loaders, add them all up and dividing to get the average).
Some people argue it has a 3 second load time… which is impossible 1.2 secs to open the blast door etc etc.
If the guns had to reset to reload, the hstvl wouldn’t have a 1.0 sec reload in game then. Not to mention, you do realize the sustained reload rate of 1.0 second was achieved when the HSTVL’s gun was at the optimal elevation?
You’re not understanding something, it includes the gun cycling the shot, elevating, etc, not just loading, 5s cycle is completely incorrect.
Example, PT-76 could reload and fire a round in less than 3 seconds, but the manual says 6, this is the meaning of a cycle.
Off topic
Because technical issues aren’t model in WT. See MBT/KPZ-70 auto-loader or T-34/85 that could make it cannon barrel dump into the the dirt if it go full speed then press the break as the example.
No the maximum fire rate would include things like lap-loading which would have like 2-3 seconds reload time as loader already hold the next round in his hand.
Which have been debunked in the others topics (mainly Mig_23) with plenty of video and source he throw in to debunked your statement. and your source ?
Depending on how they design auto-loader. I believe some auto-loader can still load the main gun at certain angle before they require the gun-breech to reset)
And as others said the HSTVL maximum reload rate are 0.5sec. 1sec could be where the Gaijin choose to include those time it take to re-alignment in.
Aubl 74 could go to 7.7 for all I care, or have its reload cut down to 4s or 5s and keep it at 8.0 or maybe 8.3.
VCC 80/60 should’ve stayed at 9.0 and I think it would’ve been fine.
At 9.3, it’s kinda bad, like you have been saying - the damage is lackluster for the reload speed and penetration.
Had the same problem as the VCC 80/60, which is the lack of spalling / damage for the reload (and the penetration at times).
1.5s is enough for a tank to react, acquire, and shoot at a weak target (like the HSTV-L) when the first shot does little to no damage (which often was and still is the case). The lack of penetration can also cause the first shot to not penetrate, especially against ERA of T-90Ms / T-80BVMs, or even the LFP of Leopard 2A7Vs.
Another off topic
If i remember right reading in the old forum in case of Abrams. Such system exist on Abrams tank but crew can choose not to re-alignment gun-breech so the gun doesn’t have to reset to loading position if it wasn’t necessary for loading round.
I think actual Abrams crew / mechanic would be able to explain this properly.
You understand, if we use this reasoning, an IS-2 will reload faster than 9 seconds. USA is already seriously buffed, in real life, they only assumed about 7 RPM, like on T-72. Exercises also found no advantage for human loader.
Now this… this is funny, you say mig debunked me, when in reality (take your bias glasses off for a second) I debunked him, provided plenty of footage of fellow tankers loading as slow a 8 secs and as fast (lap load) as 3.89 secs.
If I recall exactly, Spookston said in his video the auto loader could load as fast as 0.75 secs, but ran into a lot of reliability issues. (You know, the shells getting caught in one another perhaps?)
I came to read about HSTVL shells, but I’m reading about reloading the T-72 and Abrams
Funny.
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