@Scärlett Please could you change your suggestion to the Z-2 and include the armaments of the
H-16. As the body pieces involving the bomb-bays and under-bombbay mountings were identicle and kept the same. We want the Zwilling with bombs, not the general version for glider towing ingame.
1 Like
I advise against doing that.
Doing so would have disqualified this suggestion because there is no proof that He 111Z-2 was constructed IRL.
We have the Horten 229 ingame which is a version of the V-3 that never flew or was built either.
And if the fuselages were identicle, the defensive measures nearly identicle. And the only change being the inboard wingbox, fuel attachment and some changes to the cockpit.
The bombing capacity was still available.
So under that logic, swapping the mounting from fuel tank extensions to bombload doesn’t seem outragious or an unrealistic option.
You can even see the blanking plate put in to temporarily remove the bombing instrument for the same of making the aircraft purely for gliding. But such a modification would be very easily reversable.
@Nostalgistic Unless you can find evidence to the contrary?
1 Like
I will add further the BV-238 was added into the game as it’s planned armed version with bombload. Rather than the actual BV-238 that had no gunners and no bombload.
The BV-238 or Horten 229 were never made or created carrying those weapons, but where proposed just like the Z-2.
So having the proposed Z-2 in the game would neither be gamebreaking or be against vehicles that have been added successfully in the past and are loved by all that use them.
2 Likes
The argument is possible with the needed evidence. Gaijins rule is basically if a mount could hold something and there are no hard no it can be added balance pending.
In the images shown, it is carrying 2xPVC mounts for either the fuel tanks, 1,800kg bombs, Torpedo’s or Fritz-X’s. So the fact they are only using 900l fuel tanks is purely for that aircrafts current role, which was to extend its range config wise to tow the glider.
2 Likes
Ya what I am saying is basically the Chi-To Late used to have a mounting for a MG it was empty as it was never given the MG. Gaijin simplified the the rules and gave it the MG. The same could be argued for the Zwilling Twinyy it might have never given any bombs or torpedoes but the mounts could accept them therefore it could have these munitions.
1 Like
I am under the impression that it was already partially built. It therefore meets WT’s guidelines for suggestions. The He 111Z-2, the bomber variant, unlike the Ho 229 V3, was just a concept that never materialized.
https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/horten-ho-229-v3/nasm_A19600324000
I am not convinced, as we are entering the territory of speculation. How would you know whether the controls for the bomb bay and bomb release were still intact when the He 111Z was converted into a glider tow transport?
It is not my responsibility to provide evidence to support that argument. That responsibility lies with you or Scarlett to back up the claim that the He 111Z still retained a functional bomb bay and the controls to release internal and external bombs.
I am not familiar with the story of the other two unfinished BV 238 prototypes, but were they not intended to carry a bomb load and defensive turrets had development continued? They were considered unfinished prototypes, so I do not have an issue with them having a functional bomb bay in the game.
So, I do not think it is fair to compare the BV 238, an unfinished prototype with an ambiguous role, to the He 111Z, a version intended to tow gliders. The base He 111Z was considered a finished production version. This suggestion is for the base He 111Z, as far as we are concerned.
The He 111Z-2 was never built, so this suggestion should not be renamed to the He 111Z-2, or the suggestion moderators may delete it for the very reason I listed above.
Exactly my point and many others.
If it has a H-16 body x2 and has the mountings for weapons and only blanking plates for the bomb-aiming instrument. Then it very easily could come to the game with the blanking plates reversed on one of the bodies, and carry the bombs instead of extension fuel tank layout.
2 Likes
Ignoring the Z-1’s bomb-bays the PVC mountings are there. And will have had the capability to drop the tanks just like bombs. So if we assume the ambiguity of there being little evidence surrounding internal bombload. The larger external capacity is still visible as an option to mount.
2 Likes
This is not allowed.
3 Likes
Then does someone need to make a Z-2 specific post?
Yes.
1 Like
Had it been made as a bomber it would have had additional weapons.
BTW, the internal racks were designed to be easily removed. As a Z-1 there was none inside. And IIRC as an H-16 it could only mount external loads.
1 Like
For the 111Z-2 specific version we are into a “what if” realm.
Some original research will be needed on the equipment.
what is known is first batch used H-6 models, second used H-16. The plan to make the Z-2 was in 1944, would likely have used later models like H-20.
Since it would be going directly into combat, it certainly would be better armed.
Also bomb loads will be different. Internally was limited to 250kg bombs, so it would certainly have the external PTC mounts.
If that is the case then the external loadout options would still be great for it as an end addition for the He-111 tree. Since the internal loadouts aren’t as useful for base killing unless you use the napalm compared to the external larger explosive mass munitions.
1 Like
I do have a suspicion that the vast majority of all the upvotes on this suggestion are wanting it in it’s bomber variant. Not the defensive guns only variant.
1 Like
I too am sure people are expecting the Z-2
What we know is
First 5 where built in 1941 using 10x H-6
5 more were built later using 10x H-16
The proposal for the bomber version came some time in 1944, at which time a later version would be used.
A clear time line need to be built for what the Z-2 would be.
I am working on making a Z-2 suggestion.
4 Likes
Its good a technical mod is making the Z-2 as it improves the chances you can work with the rules and make the best arguments for its addition. Z-2 not going to lie is going to be hard.
1 Like
we need this in the TT.