Greco-Iberian Ground Forces Tech Tree

Suggestions Ground
21

+1 even though i do think there is a case for Greece (and to a lesser extent Cyprus) to go in the German TT

I do have a few things of note though

🇸🇾 Pz. IV H (1965)
🇸🇾 StuG III G (1965)

It is true that Syria brought Pz IV H’s and Stug III G’s Spain, they are not the only country that Syria procured their Pz IV’s and Stug’s from let alone their biggest supplier off. The vast majority of Syria’s Pz IV’s (including the H model) and Stugs were procured from Czechoslovakia. If you really want Middle Eastern vehicles in the Greco-Iberian TT, Egypt is a far better pick than Syria for various reasons

If you are wondering what the HMG is on the Stug III G it’s a Breda SAFAT salvaged from the G.55’s Syria operated

  • Merkava
  • Reports that Israel is engaged in advanced negotiations for selling Merkavas to Cyprus

From what i could found those reports came as early as June 2023 (though Cyprus was evaluating Merkava’s earlier than that) however because of lets say “reasons” Cyprus obtaining Merkavas is put under question at least any time soon and if it gets really desperate, Cyprus may be forced to look elsewhere to obtain new MBT’s. It is though confirmed that if Cyprus goes through in obtaining Merkava’s it’s going to be of the Mark 3 model of some description

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22

Thanks for the mention, and this looks really good! I hope you can incorporate the Leopard 1HEL, as it really is a cool tank. There’s a lot of great content here, and I hope it comes to the ge. +1

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23

Afaik the best they have is HESH which will be barely usable, while I would like to see these vehicles at some point, idk how to balance them, 5.7-6.0 is probably too high.

24

That BR is the right for them, that issue was already discussed in the FV101 Scorpion suggestion and the consensus was that 5.7-6.0 is the right one.

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25

I don’t see how it can be 5.7-6.0 with roughly 100 mm penetration at max of its HESH, basically only for scouting and against some lightly armored AA/IFVs. On the other hand lower br won’t change much.

26

I think Greece would be a nice subtree for potential Yugoslav TT.

27

No

and i do not need to elaborate further on why

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28

Better than for Germany for sure…

29

worse than Iberia

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30

Good ideas badly grouped
Greece, cyprus and so on should be a balkan TT
Iberia can either be by themselves or with italy(hungary we can give to another TT)

31

Thanks!

This is true, and I don’t doubt there is a better place for these vehicles, but nonetheless, at least some of the converted vehicles were ex-Spanish, and there’s a lack of other options for Rank III premiums (I’ll take suggestions though). It was less that I wanted Middle Eastern vehicles specifically, but rather that they made some sense and are both vehicles already in the tree.

Yes, Israel isn’t selling the Mk. 4s. I don’t think Merkavas are that likely though, especially given the ongoing ‘reasons’ you mentioned. Germany is offering the Leopard 2 to them, and France has stepped up pressure recently trying to offer their Leclerc (among other French weapons systems) – France Positions to Equip Cyprus with Leclerc Tanks and Mistral Missiles in Response to Turkish Ambitions

We’ll see what they choose – Leopard 2s would give them commonality with Greece, which I imagine is going to be a major consideration.

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32

Absolutely not

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33

VEC H-90, does look a bit like the ratel but better, i think it’s ok because it’s an improvement

Chaimite-series? i mean isnt’ that what italy used for a bunch of stuff

the ASRAD-Hellas hell yeah, the ozelot is only one so far and i’m fine with that

main issue i have is merkavafest (israel) and a lot of your high tier is just variations on leopard 2s, this is why i wanted the osorio to be added to the italian tt instead of the 2A7HU as it’s original instead of another leopard tree

34

No, Italy never operated the Chaimite. A few countries operated/have operated it in the base-APC form, but only Portugal fitted them with turrets for fire-support or anti-air purposes.

Fair, but as I mentioned above somewhere, these are all (mostly) unique Leopard 2s compared to what’s in-game so far. Germany could get the Leopard 2A6EX, and probably will at some point, but funnily enough the 2E and 2A6HEL are just slightly better because they upgraded the gunner thermals to 2nd gen.

35

nah i mean the original version that portugal copied

also tier 2 to 3 is just a gauntlet of hand me downs lmao

36

The V-150? No to that too.

True, but there just simply aren’t many domestic options at these ranks, I did what I could lol. There are still a few there though, and e.g. the M52 HMC and M4A3E4 aren’t in-game yet.

37

Is it possible to augment this tree with the LATAM tree and combine both of them? Replace the more C&P looking vehicles with more unique ones found in the LATAM tree.

It is a pretty big tree though so I dont know how well these two trees can mesh together if possible even

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38

It would certainly help reduce C+P, and it makes sense. Greece/Cyprus would have to be removed, and I don’t know how the LatAm community feel about it, but it’s a cool concept.

Equally though, if Gaijin doesn’t want to add Alliance trees, it might be a bit difficult. This tree can be marketed as Spain, just with added Portuguese vehicles and a Greek/Cypriot sub-tree. A joint LatAm-Iberian tree can’t really be marketed as e.g. Spanish or Brazilian because no single country would make up a majority of the vehicles.

2 Likes
39

Sorry for the late reply, my draft seems to have gotten deleted. But as promised, here are some options I believe could be plausible for this tree.

A Portuguese portee combining a CCKW and a 25pdr, not sure if if this one is actually functional, but there does appear to be enough space for recoil compensation. 1.3-1.7 SPG

Spoiler

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A Portuguese Universal Carrier armed with a standard Boys AT rifle, but also what appears to be an MG13 on an AA mount. It will suck for sure, but I figured that it’s at least viable. 1.0 SPG

Spoiler

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A T-34-85 in Cypriot service, mounting an M1919 rather than an M2HB. I think it can work as a premium, trading the extra firepower for premium benefits. 5.7 Medium Tank

Spoiler

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A Nationalist Spanish (I think, judging by the Panzer I Breda in the background) T-26 with a peculiar modification; a roof-mounted MG 08. 1.0 Light Tank

Spoiler

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A Spanish project to implement the 105/26 Reinosa cannon on a StuG III chassis, known as the Obus Autopropulsado de 105 mm. Some sources say a prototype (of one of the two designs) was created with the leFH 18 howitzer as a placeholder. Further sources will be needed to confirm this though. 2.3-2.7

Spoiler

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A second Spanish ATGM vehicle based on the M41 chassis, and armed with the HCT turret containing four HOT missiles. I imagine you already know of this one, but considering that it was a direct competitor to the TUA version, I think it could be added anyways, perhaps as a premium or event. 9.0-9.3

Spoiler

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A near-prototype Spanish SPAA utilizing the Meroka CIWS system. Just recently, Tank Encyclopedia came out with a pretty detailed article on this weapon’s development and the attempts to get it onto an armored vehicle. The turret was intended for the ENASA 3560/02, a fire support prototype of the BMR 6x6 APC and a brother of the C.1 you have already added to the tree. It seems that at some point during the combination process, difficulties were encountered, and the Meroka variant (named the BMR-620) was scrapped.

In addition, the turret was combined with the AML-60 armored car, creating a functional prototype for test purposes. Either this or the BMR-620 would make for an interesting AA option in the tree.

Spoiler

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I also have a few more images and information regarding the Greek M113 (M61), not sure how much you left out from this post, but there is an improved model I will make a separate comment for.

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40

I have tried to piece together the Greek M163 equivalent best I can, this is what I have so far.

Two tests of the M61A1 Vulcan on the M113A1 hull were conducted on March 30th, 2012, and 11th of January 2014. This is referenced by the official Hellenic army website itself.
Activities – Army.gr

I think this might be the first prototype after a few changes? The serial number is unfortunately censored but the camo scheme is identical. Regardless, the lack of a refined gun mount and sighting device is obvious to set it aside from the newer model.

Spoiler

Initial vehicle featured in this suggestion, likely quite early in development judging by the rudimentary and oddly colored gun mount, the BMP-1/ZU-23 combination to the left (see full image in suggestion) is a pre-production testing vehicle for the ones we know today. The M113A1/ZU-23 combination to the right is also a prototype, so this was probably back before the army had decided which weapon they wanted to arm this APC with.
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Images of the same APC, identified through the camouflage, lower plate number (on the first image you can just barely see that it’s a 12 or 13), and the almost identical albeit repainted gun aparatus with the large yellow X. Alongside the Sokous vehicle at the bottom of this suggestion, these images are quite possibly from one of the two reported tests of this vehicle.
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Somewhat recently, on June 5th, 2024, a new model was revealed, with what appears to be a thermal sight, and reportedly, new internal computer systems (FCS?) developed after feedback from Ukraine.

Spoiler

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There are a few slight variants I could find of this last photo, which tells me that there may possibly be a video somewhere.
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It seems there is a completely separate vehicle developed by Greek company Sokous Robots. I am not sure how it connects to the other prototype featured in this suggestion; perhaps it was merely an independent competitor. Nonetheless, the technology included is certainly more sophisticated over the other prototype from this time period.

Spoiler

The first of two videos, a simple firing test, was taken 12 years ago, which confirms that this vehicle is from the initial developments of this project. The second video is a more in-depth view of this prototype.

The embed for the first video wasn’t working, so you can paste DefenceNet.gr - Βολή M113 Gatling into Youtube to find it instead. Alternatively, I have a slightly shortened version I downloaded from Twitter.


Second video below
https://youtu.be/hLj9nHsKmHY?si=DFOnE1wpoI6XfTDU
Two images of this prototype. Interestingly, I happened to find the first one on the same official Hellenic army website that I did for the testing photos of the other early prototype, so the Sokous vehicle was either tested alongside the it or closely monitored by the military enough so that its imagery would appear in the same photo group (on purpose or by accident). Note that the first image also has a timestamp for March 30th, 2012, which further reinforces this date as the testing period for this prototype.
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Anyhow, that’s what I’ve gathered for the moment, but evidently the Hellenic knockoff M163 is a lot more than some makeshift unit modification. And as of this year, it seems that Greece has reignited this project, so I am interested to see where it eventually leads.

3 Likes