I made this bug report a year ago about this,
you can see here: Community Bug Reporting System
But so far absolutely nothing was changed about it even tho it was accepted.
@KillaKiwi as someone who is more used to reporting things I have a question… is it worth bumping reports that were already accepted?
Probably not, they’d just be on par with the rest of the cannons.
Cuz realshatter doesn’t care about TNT equivalent that much, you can see how many 30mms that use it are lacking in terms of fragmentation.
Hispano 20mm HEI [9.28g TNT equiv]
Type 5 30mm HEF-I [27.5g TNT]
The result is pretty much the same since there’s not enough fragments created or spreading properly.
Mineshells would prob have a similar result to this 30mm.
It not only worse than other 20mm, it also worse than some of the .50 that have HE filler in it, the air target belt in Ho-103 and BredaSafat can easily scratch enemy into piece by landing few bullet on the wing but the Mg151 sometimes you can’t even critical a plane after fire you whole belt on it
Yes I know, it’s worse than pretty much anything that uses realshatter at the moment.
No clue. Sometimes it takes years for issues to be fixed.
This has probably a priority as low as it can get.
I have so many reports about incorrect aircraft ammunition that aren’t even accepted yet, after years.
And I’m still waiting for them to remove AP and API(c) from Soviet 12.7mm aircraft guns, which probably is never going to happen.
Im still waiting for 15mm AP-I(c) to HVAP change, with 1050m/s.
So, do you guys think it is worth to create a pool or something for pp to vote; cuz I saw that the custom belts suggestion topic from 1 and a half years ago just got accepted for review to the devs, so maybe there’s a chance?
I saw by accident that gaijin closed my bug report as they were not satisfied with the linked source:
…despite it is online available, highly official and clearly states that the self-destruction of mine shells will happen after 3 seconds - and not much earlier like currently implemented.
If somebody want to try it again: Feel free to to try it again - i am done with this kind of behaviour.
Well, I also have a report on self destroying shells.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/dvxLt7m0iE7k
But it’s just about the the incorrect implementation, that shells exploded based on distance traveled and not time.
They probably copied that implementation from the Rocket self destruction setting, which is also based on distance from the aircraft.
If your plane is fast enough you can shoot yourself down, by putting Rocket self destruct distance to 100m, because the rocket will just explode 0.1s after launch.
While this gives you nice numbers to select, it’s completely meaningless in actual combat, since the Rockets will explode earlier the faster the plane travels.
wish this was fixed reported in numerous times
Meanwhile they have added a Russian SPAA that is equipped with MG151.
And the Mineshell in that vehicle not only uses Realshatter but it also has a lower fuze delay compared to the German one, while literally being the same round.
German aircraft HEI - Mineshell:
Russian SPAA HEI - Mineshell:
At the end of the day the one that’s equipped in the Russian SPAA does more damage.
It’s ironic at this point, the lack of communication really doesn’t help. It should be a very easy fix / change.
Report on it: Community Bug Reporting System
Not that it really makes a difference. Mineshells with realShatter still deal less damage than regular explosive shells, beause all the structural damage of realShatter comes from fragments, which Mineshells don’t have, since they are so light.
So a 96g shell with 4.13g explosive is still superior to 92g shell with 18.6g explosiv.
The damage from realShatter fragments simply doesn’t make any sense:
At that range only small fragments can hit the fusleage, yet the damage is still greater than a 20mm AP shell.
It should be so simple:
Even a German 20mm HEFI-T shell with a total load of 2.9g PETN and 2.1g thermite would damage fuel tanks more consistantly than Mineshells, due to the fragmentation, that can reach much further than just the blast power of the Mineshell.
They also do more damage than the current German Mineshell which is funny (atleast for Air Rb).
However the amount of fragments it produces is incredibly low.
Do you know the logic behind the fragmentation here? I know that the fragments have 0 to do with TNT equivalent. But I have no clue what actually makes one round generate more fragments than the other.
Unfortunately not. But I think it’s based on weight and filler/weight ratio.
Which in reality determines fragment size, amount and energy.
In WT the fragmentation damage seems to mostly come from weight and fragment size.
So while Soviet FI-T is lighter than Hispano HEFI, it deals pretty much the same damage, maybe more, even though Hispano HEFI fragments seem to have more range.
I cannot tell you about how WT models things, but I can tell you a bit about how actual projectiles perform (and fragment).
With respect to fragmentation - projectile shape, jacket thickness, jacket taper, jacket hardness all play a role. Whether or not that jacket features scoring to weaken it, or rings/bands that strengthen/thicken parts of it will also impact performance. The ogive and meplat are also key characteristics in terms of how the jacket experiences impact. Most anything with a fuse (or an open tip) will feature a meplat conducive to fragmentation, provided the ogive is not too sleek/thick and impact velocity is sufficiently high.
The so what of all that is that projectiles with wider meplats, softer jackets, less aggressive ogive shapes, and higher velocity are more prone to fragmentation… and the more mass the jacket has, the more (or heavier) fragmentation it can produce.
I think it was @KillaKiwi that mentioned in another thread that many nations moved away from HE fill because the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze compared to using incendiary fill and physics ;-).
The signature feature of the Mineshell was that Germany managed to hollow out a shell casing that much that it had very thin walls, but still remained intact after firing.
This had two main consequences:
Other shells with less filler and thicker walls did almost no damage in comparison, due to low explosion power and less fragments. Thats why mineshells were quite famous and even after the war MG151 was used by some nations.
Guys I appreciate the explanation behind the real Mineshells or how real projectiles perform, that’s actually cool to know!
However I was asking about how Realshatter works in terms of fragment generation xd, since most guns use the same fragment coefficient in War Thunder. (Shouldn’t be like that)
I was wondering what makes one round produce more fragments than the other since it’s not the TNT equivalent.
Maybe it’s weight, idk. Makes no sense.
I just tested the British 20mm HEI and german 20mm HEI (M), and while the german one causes orange structural damage and a lot of times doesn’t kill an engine upon direct hit, the British consistently annihilates the wing and destroys the entire engine plus radiators. In conclusion Minengeschoss is just worse and its only benefit is having a larger AOE (completely disregarding the horrible muzzle velocity).
Imagine have more HE than other 20mm, but give the most less damage than other 20mm. Anybody already make report about this?
