-1
Perhaps I should have been more clear in my comment.
If T-72S lacks any major distinguishing compared to T-72B already present in the Russian tree, then why have it at all? If you wanted to play the T-72s, you’d just play Russia, no?
You constantly see people complaining about the grind, especially when it comes to ground vehicles. Adding more exportslop is really not necessary. If you wish to diversify the Rank VII lineup, you could do so with the numerous distinct German designs that are yet to be added.
I mean no disrespect with my reply. I deeply value the work that goes into finding sources for such suggestions. That being said, I struggle to contain my disappointment after reading this suggestion. To be specific, I’m not excited about a barely distinguishable variant of a vehicle that we already have.
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Well the addition of more East German vehicles to the game is always good since that was one of the unique things about Germany during the Cold War, having access to tons of Eastern and Western equipment. Also Germany lacks any ERA vehicles of any kind.
also it’d be nice to have another solid tank to use in the 10.3-10.7 lineup
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See while I’m generally a big supporter for GDR vehicles, in this case I think it’s -1 because this is only a vehicle they trialed and considered purchasing. Domestic prototypes trialed, or export vehicles tailored to a specific country’s requirements are maybes, but just a vehicle offered broadly for export and never acquired is a no in my book. Plus, I wouldn’t want this competing with early Leopard 2 models for development resources.
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In that sense yes. It was supposed to be cheaper. But i kinda meant best as in best t72 (since even gdr got worse armour and older ammunition)
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To be fair it is worse than the 72B. Less era. Worse armour.
Older ammunition. Etc etc. it’s an export version the Russians wouldn’t want. But Germans wouldnt mind having the diversity and the era
Makes sense GDR was packed full of spies last thing you need is a top of the line shell going missing and if needed you can always move in better ammo. East Germany was also less tactically relevant and was meant to buffer a attack not defeat it. However T-72 was more successful than the Russians could ever predict. GDR did however have decent equipment concerning the infantry.
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Even so, it’s still worth having. Though it is more of a stretch, it’d be nice to also maybe have the GDR T-10, not sure what variant.
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+1 Germany really need his DDR vehicles !
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Whilst I really want this tank for both Germany and Poland, I am wondering how on earth this passed moderation and what the though process was.
Unfortunately, this is kind of completely unreal
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It wasn’t trialed, it was planned to be introduced into Warsaw pact countries. But as it was 1989, this was the last meeting.
Here is a more complete history of the T-72S:
From 1987-1989 talks were had between Poland and Czechoslovakia on acquiring the license to produce to the tank. In one of your sources actually it is said that these would be the only potential customers to produce the tank (as these were the two biggest military industries outside the Soviet Union in the eastern block)
Now the eastern block was primarily run by the Soviet Union, and Moscow managed most of the countries. Not all production of tanks was just in Poland, Czechoslovakia, and USSR. That is why we see that Germany was to produce 9K120 svir. Other countries would produce other small parts, and would be shipped to Poland or Czech for assembly (and Poland/Czech would manufactute major parts). This was how it worked for T-72M/M1 and older tanks. But for T-72S it was all just talks and negotiations. Poland and Czechoslovakia never bought the license before the fall of Warsaw pact. The 9K120 production in Germany was just a proposal.
For T-72S the idea was that Poland and Czechoslovakia would produce the tank as license production starting possibly in the 90s (hard to say). Either it would be a pure copy or Poland would make their own self modified version of the tank (kind of what happened in reality, but with T-72M1). Then these tanks would go to Polish/Czechoslovak army (obviously) and the surplus of tanks would go to other Warsaw pact armies who buy the tank. Or they just buy it from Russia, this system was very complicated.
Now for a Romanian production line of the T-72S, no clue where that came from. Poland and Czechoslovakia were the only potential producers, Romania is like the last possible place ever in the Warsaw pact the USSR would license anything to in the late 80s.
As for the MWTR meeting, it honestly was more of a formality. You can see that a lot of restrictions were already being placed on how Germany would be able to use the tank in 1993/95.
This is kind of why the deal fell through.
I don’t know about Czechoslovakia, but this is how it happened for Poland.
After 1989 events in Poland, the USSR didn’t just cut off all contact, that’s not how the world works. Poland couldn’t just immediately transfer to NATO as they had literally been training physically and economically to fight NATO for the past 50 years.
So what happened was instead of cutting of the deal, the USSR made the license price much much higher and restricted all export of T-72S (meaning only Poland could use the tank and not sell it to anyone else). Additionally any modification of the tank would be banned unless it was co-designed and supervised by Soviet engineers.
Of course, Poland said hell nah to this deal and turned it down. This is kind of what happened to most other deals with the Soviet Union and how the Warsaw pact kind of dissolved economically.
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Now as for Germany, all of this relied on Poland and Czechoslovakia purchasing the T-72S license. Even in 1988 and communist times this wasn’t guaranteed, as Poland was developing the T-72M2D and Czechoslovakia was starting the process of creating systems for a domestic tank (like Dyna ERA).
Now even if Poland or Czechoslovakia bought the T-72S after 1989, like I said before it would have been a bad deal and export restricted. So then Germany wouldn’t be able to get it at all.
I also have never seen anything that Germany would have still bought the T-72S after 1989, as the only place they could buy it from would be the USSR, and why would they do that when West Germany now unified could produce all the tanks they want (and at higher quality)
Anyway, this is probably one of the most paper vehicles ever (even though I personally really do want it). In reality it isn’t even a vehicle, it is a business pitch relying on another business pitch that was a formality of the collapse of communism
- Despite my yapping, the rest of the suggestion is great. I just think that if this were added ingame it would give gaijin the ability to add whatever the hell they want, and I don’t want to give them any more ability to do that then they already have. If gaijin was a better company and more logical I think that this would be a great addition, along with other planned DDR purchases in the late 80s. But unfortunately we live in a real world
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And yet, it gets a overwhelming “yes.” But yeah… it’s not a vehicle for the Soviet tech tree so of course it have so many yes.
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I still have no clue how this got approved, I wonder which mod approved it
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I will sent you in DM my opinion that which one.
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Probably because people push for a higher presentation of GDR vehicles so they just vote “yes” without reading the suggestion fully
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Agree. Very probable.
Like I want also higher presentation of GDR vehicles but T-72S or even T-10 (not known variant) are most terrible ones.
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fulfills requirements also its already been passed on the old forum by none other than our very own Stuhlfleisch
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sorry not really interested in this one -1
probably better options
Thats pretty much questionable. From what I read in rules so theoretical/fictional vehicles are not allowed. Germany didnt have T-72S even on trials (if what SoyBeanInhaler wrote is correct) so for Germany its pretty much fictional.
Of course it passed. He made also that T-10 thread for which is not even known which version it should be and same as T-72S it was not even trialed.
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