Pretty sure they said they were taking liberties with classified tanks all the way back in New E.R.A when they announced going forward into composite armours
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Considering the following passage from their M1 armor Article
I doubt that they are intending to improve the hull armor whenever the SEP v3 turns up, let alone in terms of CE, which flies in the face of evidence.
take for example
Which would indicate that at very least CE protection improvements were made to the hull, to account for the propagation of Tandem and larger warheads.
Which brings into question about why armor is being obtained from the DoE, not the contractor / BRL.
And finally the amended nuclear materials license which permits DU components to be used as needed in M1.
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I believe @Count_Trackula also presented accurate sources in the devlopement blog from the Devs about DU in the hull.
Yeah, I think that’s where I found them.
If gaijin chooses not to upgrade the hull on sepv3 even though we have proof, it will end up being the final conformation to the community that gaijin is intentionally gimping the Abrams.
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SE#1 & 2 were both canceled in large (apart from the DU turret front) due to weight concerns:
Anything past that is not related to those upgrades and should be treated as its own thing.
Which brings into question about why armor is being obtained from the DoE , not the contractor / BRL.
Assuming that document is talking about the SEPv2 mod 2 (~2011 DOI), it’s because of NGAP/NEA Mk.1
something something, production model Abrams do not have upgraded protection, something something suspension never upgraded…
Anyways, I for one look forward to being able to laugh about the SEPv3’s situation.
I cant wait to see how they spin this one.
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They said not enough sources, and then the Suspension, and after that they’re not gonna say anything just ignore ignore ignore.
Did you not read the last sentence?
“The Army Plans to introduce the remaining portions of the Block II survivability enhancements only as corresponding weight reductions are achieved”
There was an intent (and a need) to incorporate those changes from (at least) the beginning of the -A2 program, when possible. It is likely that this would have occurred by now with at least one of the variants since the problem only gets exacerbated by time as more powerful threat systems are developed and increase in number and availability.
Also I’m assuming that it entirely ignores the presence of the almost 11 ton mine roller, since otherwise literally no service M1 configuration does not fail to come in under the 72 ton limit, let alone failure of the later SEPs to remain below it.
Yep look at how they gimped the Leo2 A7V should have about 700-725mm KE protection on the front hull.
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Does the 2a7v have the improved transmission in game?
Nope they just lowered acceleration and max speed cause of weight
And why would the introduce the original SE#1 and SE#2 upgrades as part of the SEP+ programs when by then, they’d already be horribly outdated? Especially with the SEPv2 that, when it entered service, ~16 years passed since the SE#1 and SE#2 had been conceived. Like, I’m not even saying armour upgrades hadn’t happened, I’m saying that when they did happen, it wasn’t by using the armours developed under the original M1A1 Block II program.
Also I’m assuming that it entirely ignores the presence of the almost 11 ton mine roller, since otherwise literally no service M1 configuration does not fail to come in under the 72 ton limit, let alone failure of the later SEPs to remain below it.
SEPv1 saved up ~1.4 US tons via replacing components & plating with titanium.
AND EVEN THEN, they still needed to shave off 5 tons more to make the armouring of the M1 as specified under SE#1 & 2 a reality:
M1 configuration does not fail to come in under the 72 ton limit
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I’m not saying they would have used that specific configuration, but those layouts were an already developed & certified solution and would remain an improvement over the existing hull array so could be used to save money or be used as a surrogate / alternate to hedge against developmental risk since further development may not meaningfully improve efficacy over the existing or projected installation.
It wouldn’t really matter how old they were since we know they constitute an improvement over the Common Array.
Which is why BRL developed the TCA armour as an alternative to the armours that they had “developed” (did they ever, actually…) under the Block II program? Which was newer, tested & largely based on already proven concepts.
Actually, SE#1 has been fully cancelled now that I think about it, seeing as no Abrams, not even the SEPv3, has any improvements to top attack protection.
Because NATO makes better ammunition then Russia.
This is exactly what I am talking about. People who lack information making logically flawed statements.
This is the ONLY thing it has that’s better. And it costs it everywhere else.
What’s the Top Speed of the T-90M? Significantly less
It’s a lighter tank yet goes significantly slower in Forward AND Reverse.
And nothing you mentioned has anything to do with it’s biggest weakness. The Carousel Autoloader. It’s crap. Pure and simple. It’s a terrible, stupid design and it is three decades past showing the error of it.
I’m not really going to quibble with you much more on this. The Historical record is incredibly clear. T-Series tanks? Get stomped. Abrams tanks? Do the stomping. From Desert Storm to the fight in Ukraine, no war, battle, or engagement has shown anything but Russian tanks being garbage and the Abrams being a superlative tank.
You are allowed to put your faith into whatever you want. Just don’t expect people to respect it.
Curious by the way? If the T-90 is so great why is India dumping them?
India Finally Ditches Russia’s T-90 Tanks, Opt-in For French Leclerc MBT – Global Defense Corp
By all publicly available accounts India was so disappointed in their T-90 contract the reinvested in their Arjun program and settled on buying NATO
If the T-90 is so great why do Independent nations choose NATO tanks over them unless they are poor?
Finally, Again, if Modern Russian equipment is so great why is Russia, which has vastly more resources than Ukraine (well at the start of the war anyway) failing so spectacularly in their “special military operation?”
The answer to all of these questions is obvious. When you escape the sphere of Russian Propaganda you find that Russia makes crap. Just look at Russian Military Sales BEFORE the war in Ukraine. They were steadily and consistently losing market share. Remember Rule number 1. It’s all about the money. And if the world is not spending money on it after decades of doing so, it can only mean one thing. Even at their cheap prices Russian and Chinese stuff is crap.
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They, apparently, can’t.
I too wish they would stop with the hubris. They know nothing. The community KNOWS little more. It’s just a giant group of toddlers arguing about things they know nothing about. I’m not trying to insult anyone. Just pointing out the ridiculousness of it all. We KNOW a few Abrams hulls were built with DU in the LFP. The documents for this have been provided for many times. They shouldn’t need anything else. Not giving it to Abrams is just obstinance at this point. They should just stop with the whole “realism” angle and just make each nation as fun as possible.
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Dumping what way? By producing even more T-90S and even upgraded version Bhisma Mk3 first batch of which arrived this year?
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Well put ,totally agree.