I don’t understand what you’re trying to prove, I was simply stating that the upper front plate (which has no composite, DU, or anything besides the plate itself)… Did not increase in thickness for any model we have in the game. If it did increase in thickness, you’d be able to measure the plate from the weld line and up as it already rests on top of the fuel bulkheads… only place to expand is up.
Regardless, these sources have already been considered by Gaijin when they added those variants to the game.
The M1a2 frontal hull should have 590mm KE protection. Yes, I’m sure it already has been. But it logically makes sense considering the weight increases between variants, and 40 years old.
That’s the CATTB hull, which is already different from the normal Abrams in regards to the whole engine area and having more front composite armor, and should not be taken as a source for the normal production Abrams variants.
CATTB used a standard M1A1 hull.
The engine area being modified has absolutely no bearing on the front armour.
Similarly, the composite inserts being modified has no bearing on the outer shell, nor do the strengthening measures.
These blueprints match ultrasonic readings of the M1 outer shell to the very millimetre, they are accurate.
i love how people talk about abrams armour like if they actually modified it, abrams armour is considered classified that’s why it makes them powerful and unkown, u can’t fight someone and defeat them if u don’t know his weakspots, not like the t90m u know where to hit and other tanks such as the leopards, etc…
Gaijin ask for declassified documents to make improvement to the abrams but they know there’s none and they want players to share classified documents so they send them to a known place, and warthunder is not a realestic game like they say, i know i might get muted for days for saying this lol
The upper front plate consists solely of RHA, the weld line is absolutely a good method of determining thickness. We know this because the plate sits on top of a bulkhead that otherwise isn’t modified from previous versions. The only room for increased armor is going up. From weld line to top of armor plate is the same thickness as that measured from the driver’s hatch. It is a singular uniform plate of steel which derives the majority of it’s protection value from the high construction angle.
The claim was that this plates thickness was increased, to do so would require a modification to the weld lines on the front and side. No such modification is seen, no increase in thickness is visible. No documentation supports the claim. The upper front plate was not improved on variants at least up to the SEPV2.
Get us photos of the weld line then. Although, USA makes almost all armor mods passive(internal), but this would get us close but it would still be a guess without actually seeing in the inside.
For example: I imagine the bulkhead where the weld line is located is quite thick to support all the weight, but we couldn’t see it because it’s passed the weld line.( where the hull and the hull armor weld together)
I bet it’s a minimum of100mm thick plate or more past the weld line. So this actually wouldn’t help much. Still just guessing
Why are you claiming the bulkhead hasn’t been modified from other versions as if you know that for a fact? ? How the heck would you or I know that?
Relax CNN.
He’s the one claiming the weld line hasn’t changed and the Abrams hull armor hasn’t been upgraded in 40 years. .The burden of proof is on him to back up his claim.
You took screenshots of surplus store books. Those barely qualify as a good read, let alone a set source.
Your only claim that it has been upgraded is a random paragraph from an unknown book that says its 2". Somebody else already posted firsthand documentation with diagrams that show the Abrams to have 1.5" of armor on the hull roof.
You down play the merit of the author because you call it a surplus book but he got this information directly from military personnel, (marine corps tankers association and the U.S army brother hood of tankers) as he was a military reporter for many years.
But it’s easy just to ignore every source and just pretend like they don’t exist- that’s what everyone does to the poor abrams.
Your original comment on the topic was towards its hull protection, and MiG’s original comment was referenced to somebody that claimed the UFP was 50.1mm. You then posted “proof” of the hull roof being 2in, and since that last week, neither of you have substantiated that claim.
This refers to the turret. The turret in-game reflects its IRL metrics.
It references the M1A1 being upgraded with the armor, and all it says is that it was included in the armor package, not replacing the old one.
As for the rest of your “citations”, simply saying that the armor was “beefed up” does not prove anything.
I downplay the merit of the author because you don’t cite who the author is. It could be a $5 book on the shelves of a kids’ store and it wouldn’t make a difference, as it isn’t a citation.
I couldn’t care less what personnel he got it from. Did he personally measure the thickness of the armor? Or did he simply ask a clueless loader?
They aren’t sources, as I’ve said. I don’t see an ISBN number, I don’t see any document identifier.
A book made by a barely esteemed writer, known for “The Church in Emerging Culture: Five Perspectives”, “Who Is This Jesus?”, or “Sharing your faith with a friend: Simple Steps To Introducing Jesus”, does not prove anything without proper sources. Asking a friend does not count, especially from an apologist.
I don’t care whether it exists or not, your shitty books are not sources.
I replied with this paragraph because he stated the weld line is solid tell all for armor protection based on how thick in MM it is.
I posted this to counter that because thickness is irrelevant to the materials used. As in the armor doesn’t have to grow in size for better protection- it can add material into the armor design to make it better without increasing area/volume used in the armor layout.
