[Feedback] Loss of unsinkability mechanics

While it is true that some weaker battleships, maybe even cruisers will stand a chance against Scharnhorst, don’t forget that also makes it even easier for Scharnhorst to kill them, because this system greatly favours ships with rapid firing guns and guess which battleship has the fastest reload in game? The problem of Scharnhorst is due to various issues like BR compression and DM design and for the sake of making it “killable” while completely messing up the balance in between other ships is not a reasonable move at best.

A side note, with the old system there are still ships like Hood, Mutsu, Amagi etc that can stand toe to toe against Scharnhorst quite effectively. With the new system, all of the above ship is going to be sunk by Scharnhorst in no time. Do you really think this improves the situation?

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Upping the BR does nothing, when the turtleback cannot be penetrated by Yamato.

We need a new system if it is to ever be resolved.

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And before two updates the Scharnhorst magazine was exploded. It was Gaijin who removed it
This can be solved by making the shell fragments stronger, but they are adding a horrible mechanism

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That was a bug, where shrapnel phased through infinite amount of armor.

Allowing for that makes ships like Dunkerque unplayable.

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I would far rather they just reduced the scharnhorsts amour so it acts like it should within the limits of the game engine than ruin the entire game mode.

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Dunkerque is already unplayable, with or without that. Because the shell room mechanic
I think, Scharnhorst has no solution other than fragment damage. For example, it wasn’t a good battleship in the SAP era

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I’m not saying that the current iteration is perfect.

I’m saying that the direction where ship buoyancy and structural integrity have a better simulation than they do under the old system is, overall, correct.

could work with complex ship bulkhead since imagine your ship have 20 bulkhead but the game have like 6 section that’s totatlly unrealist sinking ship from spam he upper deck is also dumb you also have to take in account in ship section like corridor etc that the crew will seal to prevent flood spread wich is also realist wich coul make the ship tilt but still not sink ship 3d model should be reworked entirely to be realist including room corridor and bulkhead and thus ship will become realist

I think, Scharnhorst has no solution other than fragment damage.

The solution is to make it sinkable without penetrating the citadel - as it was in real life.

And to reiterate - I’m not saying that the first iteration, which we see on the dev server, is perfect or the final preferable solution. But it’s headed in the better direction than the old system did.

Dunkerque is already unplayable,

That is inaccurate.

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It’s real. Have you ever played Dunkerque with 0 rounds? I did

The current situation is only advantageous to Scharnhorst. Do you have any way to replace this?
Even in dev - Scharnhorst vs. Rodney, Scharnhorst is winning

And this is not a 1:1 game. Our hull will be destroyed in an instant and sink.

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Anyway, my opinion is that this system should not be introduced
If they want to introduce this system, they would have to remove the deck from the hull DM and also make flood DM along the internal bulkheads, and adjust the hull HP… also adjust hull damage by caliber
But I don’t believe they have the ability to do that…

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I would prefer improvements and refinement over the old system instead of throwing everything out and replace it with something illogical.

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I totally agree with your comments. What needs to be added to this is discussion of the new shooting mechanics, as well as the speeding up of rangefinding that’s occurred over the last couple updates. All these things are seriously game breaking and serve no purpose but to dumb the gameplay down. Naval IS supposed to still have difficulties that the player must overcome in aiming, no different than in ground battles. The lead is far more x/y/z than just x/y because of the massive ranges and constant movement of shiip-to-ship combat as compared to ground battles, but that is just a fun part of learning. Making it be instant (the range finding updates basically did that) or worse, totally AI controlled and run, just destroys the actual gameplay. Combine that with these new mechanics, it makes it ludicrously simple to aim and shoot at opponents, to where it very much turns the gameplay into an on-rails-shooter, especially if you just sail straight ahead, one could ignore anything but holding down the mouse button and pointing. This is ridiculous and will further destroy the game mode.

Yet we have neither a thread specifically dealing with this system, nor a poll about it, nor ANY response to the many posts I and others have made in the changelog thread about this issue. The devs are showing no interest or care in what players want, and have equally never responded to or listened to what players said about the rangefinding speed boosts.

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Bro, your #2 most played vehicle is the Scharnhorst with a 10:1 K/D. LOL. There is nothing historical about the Scharnhorst’s damage model.

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Looking at the datamined information on changes to gun dispersion posted by gszabi this update seems like it will contain a double nerf to survivability, to the point I believe that those changes should be done in a vacuum and will probably accomplish any desired reduction in ship lifetime by themselves. The hardest hitting 15” and 16” guns will be shooting patterns tighter than the current crop of 12” guns, while the 14” guns are statted to shoot so tightly that I suspect you will now either land most shots in a salvo or miss the target completely over small range errors because the dispersion value is just that small.

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From what I saw in the files, each hull section lost 20% HP for everything DD sized and larger.

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Because I’m all nation grinder, and I have to grind every other capital ship except Von der Tann with Scharnhorst since it’s introduction.
Plus, it’s OPness makes it most easiest way to grind event, so I do so.

I’m not talking Scharnhorst is damn OP. It is, at least for two years since SAP/HE nerf, and especially severe for one year when Gaijin mess up will shell drag, making almost every naval shell’s penetration higher than it should be since June 2024.

And what ‘nothing historical’? It is mostly working as what intended in real life.
First, turtleback. Kriegsmairne’s goal of making Scharnhorst and Bismarck’s armor is to perfrom as 500+mm single plate armor in 15 km, and becoming better as it gets closer.
Many saids about ‘overmatch before ricochet’, but its not realistic at all. Steel plate at ricochet angle, even if it is not armor plate, still could ricochet round. There are quite famous video showing Lada sedan ricochet russian 152 mm HE round due to absolute-ricochet angle. 73 degree is not ‘unrealistic’ angle to ricochet old style APCBC when 82 degree of steel can ricochet modern APFSDS which is specially design to pen angled armor. Plus, even calculating overmatch before ricochet angle, Scharnhorst’s turtleback is 105 mm, which makes shells caliber to be bigger than 735 mm to overmatch.

Also note out that war thunder’s shell falling angle is higher about two times compared to real life, thanks to dagor engine which cannot represent accurate shell velocity/penetration/ballistic at same time. Current shells in naval is actually getting benefit against citadel in game.

Unrepairable part is nonsense as it will harm other ships more than Scharnhorst.

For buoyancy part, yes I know Kriegsmarine ships shit in buoyancy but many other nations too. And also, while Gaijin showing full of dissapointing move when implementing new mechanism on naval, I never assume such new ‘buoyancy’ mechanism will improve game if developed by Gaijin’s developer.

Make Scharnhorst’s BR as higher as possible with proper decompression is the only stable answer we could expect for healthy game. While everyone saids about tankiness of Scharnhorst, they do ignore about it’s firepower.

3.5 rpm of rapid reload with decent 440 mm penetration at 10 km is what making Scharnhorst beast. As Rodney and other british battleships shows, tanky ship without firepower does not show such OPness as Scharnhorst. Scharnhorst is OP because it can do everything, not only because it is super tanky.

And considering Scharnhorst’s firepower’s strength is mostly against cruisers and 6.3 dreadnoughts, Isolating it from meeting such ships will greatly reduce the effectiveness of Scharnhorst. Plus, reverting her penetration to 380 mm at 10 km as before Jun 2024.

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Thank god, that’s amazing news!

Putting aside this new unsinkability mechanic for a moment, I’m very excited for the accuracy buffs, HE pen buffs, and torp damage buff. :)

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I can’t say if it’s good or not without testing, I think Gaijin should provide a proper test (better on live-server in events tab) for such big changes and maybe a poll.
Also after the change with the amount of AI in battles, I would like to see BR decompression and rebalancing of frigates with the addition of another spawn point.

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This is shaping up to be by far the worst damage model change they have done in years, perhaps ever. It isn’t a good thing, they are going to exacerbate every existing issue with compression/hard meta ships while also making it very difficult to put the mode back into a sensible state because they are changing far too many gameplay variables at once without considering the knock on effects each will have on the other.

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