I disagree. You don’t need to approach this like a Gaijin dev. Don’t be afraid to say what you actually think, because you and I both know the EJ Kai and the FGR.2 with new missiles would be fine at 12.0.
And when everyone is super, nobody is.
Your old habits die hard because you said the same thing last time. People who bought these expensive aircraft deserve a grinder that’s actually worth using, so relax. Nothing bad would happen if this change were made. There’s literally NO REASON why it can’t get these missiles.
I’ve finally solved the F-4J issue. It turned out to be a lot easier than I expected, and I also found a really cool camouflage scheme that I can make a skin suggestion for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41PdnXRCrIY
The F-4J has 60 countermeasures, while the FGR.2 and FG.1 have 90. If the F-4J can’t carry the extra countermeasures, they could replace it with No. 74 Squadron’s FGR.2, which could come with its unique Tiger camouflage. They were also the last squadron to operate the FGR.2 which is pretty interesting.
There’s no evidence that the F-4J(UK) was ever fitted with the ANALE-40 dispensers on the pylons, it used the internal AN/ALE-39 dispensers.
Personally I can’t get behind the idea of replacing the F-4J(UK) (a unique aircraft) with a copy-paste FGR.2 just for the sake of giving us a premium with 30 extra countermeasures. Sure 60 countermeasures is nothing special, but there are plenty of aircraft at that BR (and even significantly higher BRs) which have 60, or less, countermeasures. So it’s not like it’s even in a particularly dire situation countermeasures-wise, 60 is kind of the standard.
A lot of aircraft at 12.0 and above carry more countermeasures than the Phantom, and the ones that don’t are usually more maneuverable or equipped with better missiles.
At the moment, we haven’t found much evidence that it could do this. However, considering the number of modifications made to the aircraft, it’s not unreasonable to think it may have been possible. That said, we’ve yet to find any documentation confirming it, so it’s entirely possible the capability never existed.
The American naval F-4s are also expected to gain the ability to carry more countermeasures in the future, bringing them more in line with many other aircraft at the same battle rating.
If the F-4J(UK) were replaced, I think many players would see that as a positive change. It would offer better survivability while also giving players a solid aircraft to grind with. The same squadron operated the type, so a replacement isn’t completely out of the question. It’s backed by historical evidence, and it could even be introduced with a really cool skin.
I don’t think many people would be upset about it, especially considering how infamous the F-4Junk is. The most inoffensive addition to the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41PdnXRCrIY
You hate the F-4J(UK), yet you’re questioning a change that would significantly improve its survivability. You’re also against replacing it with a variant that’s historically proven to be more survivable, and that’s only if no sources can confirm whether the F-4J(UK) actually had the extra countermeasures.
Gaijin has made reasonable exceptions for vehicles before, so let’s not pretend that’s unprecedented. If no evidence can be found for the additional countermeasures, they may simply be lost to history. Take the hint.
Considering the hardware is already modeled in the game, I don’t see why Gaijin couldn’t add it. It wouldn’t upset anyone, and I think most players would see it as a positive change.
In an ideal world, I’d rather they simply give the aircraft the extra countermeasures. If that isn’t possible, though, I’d be perfectly happy with it being replaced by the more survivable FGR.2 instead.
Because if Gaijin sold F-4K/M(Premium Variant) I wouldn’t buy it; I bought it because it is F-4J(UK) Phantom F.3 with 74th RAF camouflage.
FGR.2 premium? Why should I buy it when I can buy and have it from tech tree.
One of the problem of F-4J(UK)
Gaijin ahistorically cherrypicking both USN/RAF weaponry to intentionally nerf F-4J(UK)
If we follows these bloody ‘Technical comaptiblity’ just like F-5C case, F-4J(UK) should’ve be able to access to USN weaponry such as AIM-7F, napalm, and VTAS HMS.
but Gaijin said no because we didn’t used these.
And if we follow the historical loadout, maybe we could have Skyflash SuperTEMP as counterpart of AIM-7F, but Gaijin also says no.
That’s just seems to be you and Morvran_, who doesn’t want the aircraft to receive any changes despite never having played it himself. “My personal vote, move it down to 11.7.”
Because it has more countermeasures than the F-4J(UK), it would be a much more survivable aircraft. It would also be introduced with the new missiles, finally giving the UK a solid grinder that isn’t a $80 premium while shifting the focus away from adding yet another premium aircraft to the tech tree.
That’s only if, for whatever reason, the extra countermeasures for the F-4J(UK) can’t be approved, which, in my opinion, they should be.
That’s a bit of a silly comparison. Asking for a few extra countermeasures is completely different from asking for AIM-7Fs or a straight copy-and-paste American F-4J.
Why would anyone buy the F-4J(UK) if they could just play the standard F-4J in the U.S. tech tree for free? You’re contradicting yourself here.
Your arguments from the original post are starting to spill over into this discussion as well. Besides, the Skyflash SuperTEMPs have already been accepted, so a change like this isn’t completely out of the question.
So you’re against giving the F-4J any meaningful buffs, including replacing it with a historically supported variant if the extra countermeasures can’t be added, but you’re perfectly happy for players to spend money on yet another aircraft instead of Gaijin simply reworking the Phantoms?
If they add another aircraft, the British phantoms will almost certainly be forgotten for another few years. It honestly comes across like you dislike the F-4J so much that you’d rather see more premiums added than see the aircraft finally get the attention it deserves.
Eh, I am fine with modifying F-4J(UK)'s loadout.
Giving an ahistorical F-4J(USN) C&P loadout by technical compatibility, or giving supertemp, or AIM-9L and such.
Oh, and btw, when F-4J(UK) were originally released, there were no F-4S and F-4EJ ADTW smells awfully, so F-4J(UK) were somehow meta pick as rank 7 premium jet.
Of course it would, but the problem is, it isn’t that Phantom F.3 which I bought.
New missiles could be introduced even without changing Phantom F.3 into FGR.2(Prem)
Honestly… if you want a solid grinder, you can try MiG-21Bison with R-73, or that CF-188A, even without thinking about Phantom F.3.
All three of Phantom F.3, Bison, and CF-188A suffer from power creep caused by damn cursed F-15A, and only Phantom F.3 doesn’t face bloody Premium Sukhois, but well, it is more a compression problem than a vehicle itself.
Still, buffing F-4J(UK) might be a good idea, though.
What I meant by that on context were
Gaijin just illogically cherrypicking betweeen RAF loadout and USN loadout and choose whenever they want to artificially nerf F-4J(UK).
and F-5C is one of notable example of gaijin’s double standard about weaponry because F-5C on USAF service never had countermeasure pods and AIM-9E but Gaijin decided to give them both because ‘Exported counterparts are capable of using those’
So, if we just think about F-5C Treatment for arguing’s sake, then if Gaijin wanted to keep their standard, then EX-USN F-4J(UK) in RAF also would’ve capable of using C&P weaponry from USN.
But Gaijin just decided to give neither SuperTEMP nor C&P AIM-7F.
It is not contradicting because I can’t access the standard F-4J in the UK TT.
Even if you have your F-4J(USN) in US Tech Tree
1- it is not ‘that F-4J’ from 74th RAF
2- it cannot be placed on UK deck for GRB, or cannot be used for grinding british tech tree.
Unlike FGR.2 and FGR.2(Prem) case.
I agree that Adding SuperTEMP is vastly superior than adding C&P AIM-7F via technical compatibility.
Still, if Gaijin never ever ever going to rework F-4J(UK) with SuperTEMP, we could push that awful option as ‘Plan B’.
I’ve checked the F-4J(UK) Flight Manual, Weapons Systems Manual, and Modification List. There’s nothing in any of them to suggest it could use AN/ALE-40s. Which is to be expected: 60 countermeasures is a perfectly acceptable amount for what the RAF needed, so why would they waste time and money adding more countermeasures to an aircraft that was always planned to be retired within a few years of entering service anyway.
Honestly it feels like your argument is verging on “if an aircraft doesn’t have more than 60 countermeasures it’s not worth being in the game”. By all means buff other aspects of the F-4J(UK) (give it Skyflash SuperTEMPs, better AIM-9s, etc.), but replacing it with a different aircraft just so Britain can have an aircraft with an extra 30 CMs doesn’t seem proportionate; an interesting historical vehicle shouldn’t be removed from the game just because it has fewer countermeasures than you would personally like. Aircraft have different pros & cons in real life, and that is reflected in game.
Sure having more than 60 CMs would be nice, but 60 is by no means unusable.
