Tell yourself whatever you need to.
1 Like
I’m not telling myself anything, look at the publicly available information on either. The Gripen just simply isn’t on the same level as the Eurofighter. It’s lumped into “Euro Canard” but fails to perform on par with its’ peers.
I’d agree, Gripen isn’t bad in fact i’d say it’s actually quite good but as much as that interview with a Gripen pilot is biased, some of the aerodynamic points whilst exaggerated do still stand. However that doesn’t put it on the level of the Typhoon. It’s not even a light vs medium fighter argument, it’s a matter of the Eurofighter doing everything the Gripen does but better. This is in war thunder terms of course.
That said a full br difference between a current F-16C with some AMRAAM’s and a limited (but not gimped) Typhoon imo would be pretty balanced.
I have no idea what interview you’re talking about. It’s a light airframe with an F/A-18 engine that still doesn’t yield the same T/W as larger twin engine fighters. Further, it’s unable to carry nearly as much ordnance or equipment as there simply isn’t space. It relies on pods which further reduce the amount it can carry.
It’s possible that with just short range IR missiles it will retain some semblance of dogfight performance as long as it has altitude, but that’s not going to end well for it in War Thunder. Delta Canard fighters just don’t have the same turning capabilities as other aircraft especially stuff such as the F-16 / MiG-29. Perhaps against fatter, later models of the F-16 and MiG-29 they will perform better… but the combination of high alpha and losing all your speed whilst also not having good thrust to weight or ordnance is a bad one for the in-game meta.
It’s true. Typhoon has a superior airframe & engines, 4 more maximum weapon mounts, and superior minimum viable loadout.
Not sure if this has been formatted as badly as my laptop is currently showing it.
This one: its very obviously biased though and certainly exaggerated: Former Swedish Air Force Flight Engineer explains how the Saab Gripen can Dogfight and Win Against (Almost) Any Dissimilar Aircraft - The Aviation Geek Club
I agree, I am surprised by their continued use of the GE F404 engine over that of the F110.
I was under the impression (and it seems many others are) that the Rafale/Typhoon both outperform either aircraft in terms of dogfight performance, perhaps I am wrong. Unless you are specifically referencing the Gripen, in which case i’d agree. My guess is it will perform like a better Mig-21Bis but with better energy retention in the transonic range due to the close-coupled canards.
I agree, I wonder if the radar will be better than something like the Mig-29 and F-16C in-game.
Overall I don’t think we disagree with eachother
I don’t know where the other half of my reply went
I’m not gonna bother reading it based on the title. People are gonna be surprised that the Gripen isn’t too much to sneeze at. A good early AMRAAM platform is about all it will be imo. (If it even receives them).
The Eurofighter is a much more complex machine with a lot of additional tricks and features. Aside from those though, the flight performance is still far and above the Gripen’s in terms of speed, climb rate, sustained turns, etc.
It is very obviously propaganda i concede. But I checked some of the aerodynamic claims and some do check out. I think the takeaway is that its not just a Mig-21Bis several decades late.
Out of curiosity, do you think the Eurofighter will and should outperform the F-16’s and Mig-29 etc.
and the F-16 was and still is vastly superior in every single respect to the Tornado F3 except they concluded it would be a good idea to add an even better F-16 with IRCCM before adding anything to Britain.
So if 11.3 vs 12.3 is considered a perfectly reasonable if not fair encounter (which by the SB ratings on the Tornado F3 I 100% conclude that they either dont care or consider it equal enough), then I do not understand this hard requirement for “other nations” to be equal or superior to the Typhoon before its introduction. This one rule for US/USSR and one rule for all others is just BS.
Our first Typhoon is at MOST BR13. Meaning if it came right here right now, then it would only be 2 stops higher than the next highest jet. Still a smaller gap than what currently exists for Britain and no larger than the gap for Sweden.
Now, We’ll Get Sea Harrier FA2 this update hopefully, that will put us briefly on level palying field of 12.3 until F-15C and other next 4th gen aircraft are added at 12.7. Once all nations are at 12.7, adding a 13 to 3 nations is no different to adding a 12.3 to 3 nations before all had even 12s.
But the current gap is not sustainable and needs to be addressed ASAP… Whilst Britain ‘might’ have a few bad options. Germany has none. They are stuck at most at 12.3 maybe even 12 for the forseeable future and will jump straight to 13 with the Typhoon.
Period.
Typhoon must come sooner rather than later regardless of any other factor. Because Britain, Germany and Italy getting no new aircraft in 2024 at top tier, when most others could see half a dozen, would be really really bad.
1 Like
Germany has F-4F ICE [Faster worse dogfighting F-18] & Mig-29G until Typhoon next year.
Britain has at minimum Gripen C.
Italy has F-16, Gripen C, and Mig-29 at minimum.
Germany
So 12s, maybe at a push a 12.3, but thats basically no new aircraft. Mig-29G is just a Mig-29 they’ve already got with R-73s and a different cockpit thats in English.
Britain
maybe, jury is still out on that for many many reaosns. But by the time we start talking about any other aircraft like F-18s for Canada, then they would likely be 12.7+ anyway. But again, all bad and very very messy options that are unlikely outside of C&P from other nations getting them. Most importantly. None are British and for the British TT that would suck.
Italy
Another F-16 as a stop gap maybe, Gripen Maybe, Mig-29 is probably a big fat not there. Otherwise again, its the same as the commonwealth problem. TTs mean nothing if every nation has everything. Whats the point of level any specific nation if they all just get the same aircraft in the end. Also no guarantee Hungarian Air tree will come to Italy.
The likelyhood is that Britain and germany will be fielding Gen 3s for the next year and Italy might get another F-16. Full stop. The likelyhood is that Britain, germany and Italy ownt get Typhoon until way way after it could and should have come. Maybe as late as 2025. Depsite other nations looking at getting Gen 5s because of percieved strength and this idea that minor nations should be bad.
Best not to multi-quote for now as that’s broken.
1 Like
Yeah an example of the performance difference is:
Eurofighter supercruises (and at high speeds)
Gripen A to D does not supercruise. at all.
the Gripen E does but we’re not getting that.
Tbf Gripen is way cheaper both to produce and to operate, so obviously it wouldn’t be on par with the Typhoon.
Also significantly less effective and neither are particularly useful in the real world peer to peer anymore.
Both due to numbers, and capability. Neither are stealth.
Effectiveness wise I can’t really say anything because the gripen never went into combat and Typhoon either, so…
This isn’t David vs Goliath, you can determine how these vehicles will perform without comparing combat records.
It obviously is better, but is it 40Mil dollars better? Even the F-35 is cheaper than the Typhoon. (Although operation costs might be higher?)
I’m not saying either is cost effective, I’m saying that the Gripen and Eurofighter would be like comparing the MiG-23ML to the F-14B.
2 Likes