they’re not BOP pods, they’re 55mm round cobham pods
https://web.archive.org/web/20130618171341/http://www.cobham.com/about-cobham/mission-systems/about-us/mission-equipment/auxiliary-mission-equipment/products-and-services/military-aircraft-countermeasures.aspx
Cobham actually manufacture the dispenser also? Fair enough I had assumed they just manufactured the decoys.
There goes that theory.
So yeah, not a clue and nothing I can find on the internet. Unfortunate.
the decoy is a leonardo product afaik
I’d imagine Saab’s STS is an updated, STANAG 4781 compliant version of this for dispensing BriteCloud
well theres a 55mm variant of the britecloud soooooooo
Another nice bit of evidence to link the Twin Missile Carrier to the RAF Eurofighter when it comes:
That’s from a document at the National archives discussing the planned loadouts for RAF Eurofighters.
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gaijin be like
“heEEElll no”
interesting though that the twin carrier is only for IR missiles.
we’ve seen the picture of iris-t on it and this says asraam…
however it also says that its the MFRL which can carry meteor and amraam as per the manufacturer
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Whatever the reason I’ve seen plenty to suggest ASRAAM / IRIS-T can use it, but nothing to suggest that AMRAAM can.
Russian patent for dual pulse missile indicates that ramjet powered ordnance struggles to hit high flying aircraft in the range 25-35km and has poor maximum range maneuverability for highly agile targets compared to dual pulse motors. Seems the primary advantage of a much larger NEZ does nothing to improve end-game performance at very long ranges compared to similarly ranged dual pulse types.
Long story short ; if a dual pulse motor (which would be larger) can reach similar maximum ranges to the Meteor, it would have superior performance in high altitude and near-max-range scenarios?
So because the Russians can’t design a missile that works properly that means Britain can’t? Then the Kh-38ML has a max range of 10km because the AGM-65E has that range. Also the Gsh-30-1 has a max fire rate of 80 same as the RARDEN.
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Physics doesn’t change just because Russia is designing a missile. They were quoting the Meteor specifically in the patent and their studies determined that it cannot sustain more than 1.5 units at such altitudes as opposed to the dual pulse being able to sustain 5
I’m not really sure how this is relevant to the Eurofighter’s Twin Missile Carrier (that being the comment you replied to), but I’ll answer.
I assume this is the patent you are referring to? If so it doesn’t seem to be concerned with end game performance at long range (I can’t see that mentioned anywhere in it). It seems to be entirely concerned with the problem of intercepting an agile target at very high altitudes (25 - 35 km / 82,021 - 114,829 ft); which seems a little misguided to me as I can’t think of any NATO aircraft which operate at those altitudes, with any sort of meaningful manoeuvrability, but I digress.
The patent states that ramjet powered missiles produce little thrust at altitudes of 25 -35 km (estimating that Meteor produces 50-100 kgf), so must rely entirely on aerodynamics for control. This in turn means that such a missile would need large control surfaces to be effective at such altitudes, something which meteor does not have, and is generally not desirable for AAMs:
The above-described Meteor rocket was chosen as a prototype of the proposed invention as the closest solution in its technical essence, coinciding with the proposed invention in a number of features.
The main drawback of the prototype missile is its low maneuverability when attacking targets flying at high altitudes (around 25…35 km), which is primarily due to the selected propulsion system, since in this case it significantly affects the available overloads of the missile (for effective target interception, the missile overload n p must be several times greater than the target overload n ц ).
Indeed, the thrust of a ramjet engine is relatively small (at an altitude of 25…35 km for this class of missiles, the engine thrust is ≈50…100 kg), and, therefore, when attacking high-altitude targets, the increase in available overloads due to the projection N of the engine thrust T on the normal to its velocity vector (N=T*sinα, where α is the angle of attack) is very small, and therefore the missile overload must be created almost entirely by aerodynamic forces alone. Due to the small velocity pressures q at high altitudes, in this case, large areas of aerodynamic surfaces or a decrease in the altitude of use are required, which is extremely undesirable.
The objective of this invention is to create a long- and medium-range missile that, with dimensions acceptable for the carrier, would have the necessary overloads to ensure the interception of targets at altitudes of 25…35 km.
By comparison they argue that a a dual pulse motor would provide significantly more thrust at those altitudes, allowing it to pull more g to intercept the target.
This design of the missile ensures an increase in its available overloads in the target area due to two factors:
- a significant increase in the projection N of the rocket engine T thrust onto the normal to its velocity vector;
- increasing the velocity pressure q due to increasing the missile’s flight speed in the target area.
Thus, at an attack angle of α=30° and a real value of the last impulse thrust for a solid-fuel charge of T=1000 kgf, the specified thrust projection will be N=500 kgf. With a rocket mass at the end of the active flight section G p of about 120 kg, the additional overload n dop from the second impulse engine thrust will be about 4 units.
Thus, if the solid-fuel engine of the second impulse of the missile is launched at such a time that it operates practically until the meeting with the target, then this would allow the control overload to be formed mainly due to the propulsion system. The proposed invention is aimed at implementing this approach, making it possible to create an effective missile for hitting targets at altitudes of 25…35 km without a significant increase in its aerodynamic surfaces.
The patent seems to make a reasonable case that dual pulse motors could be superior to ramjets when it comes to intercepting very high flying targets. I don’t see anywhere where it mentions near-max-range scenarios though, the closest it seems to get is mentioning near-max-altitude scenarios:
It should be noted that the advantage of the missile according to the proposed invention is most fully manifested at altitudes close to the maximum
That is a big “if”, the patent appears to show a maximum launch range of ~100 km for the proposed missile, while Meteor’s maximum launch range is officially stated to be 200 km (and IIRC some Japanese document put the actual figure at something like 320 km?). Also a ramjet missile would likely have a higher average velocity, which is useful in it’s own right.
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ramjets dont need to loft as high, allowing for better in flight divert capability… meaning that they’re more effective at long range against a maneuvering target. this is something thats a massive downside of those big phoenix like missiles.
It’s not, but you are the one who has all of the relevant sources.
I linked it?
This would be end game performance, as in target intercept point. Most usually associated with maximum range it launched.
It is likely an example referencing the effective range of presumably the R-77PD or perhaps more likely the R-77-1. It could also just be a generic chart showing the additional altitude range for a dual pulse motor.
Regardless;
I suppose I forgot to ask - do you have any information regarding the Meteor that disputes the claims stated?
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typical Mig23 trying to talk Eurofighter stuff down
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“it cant intercept targets at arbitrarily high altitudes so that means that it sucks at long range and everywhere else too” ???
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mig 23 doing what he does best onece again
making everything about russian stuff and not missing a beat to advocate russian technology
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wait this isn’t a Su-57 thread?
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For anyone that knows more about this stuff.
I found a paper about Ramjets propulsion, so i thought i post this here.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268481201_Air_Intake_Development_for_Supersonic_Missiles
Its also made by a guy that works at Bayern chem wich produces the propulsion part of the Meteor.