but with modern tech surely they can do both? at the very least, IRST is capable of guiding in AMRAAM, with two way DL on AIM-120D it could overcome the EFT TRD
Pray tell - what happens if the DL freq is jammed…
what happens if the aircraft uses AESA radar (aka nearly every US fighter) and can transmit information, ie datalink, and it is immune to the deception jamming used by spectra and praetorian dass
Adding two different seekers on the same missile would add weight to the missile compared to just one, unnecessarily reducing the range of the missile when you wouldn’t want that compared to adversaries. Plus, the Russians and Chinese already are using PL-15 and R-37s which currently outrange western missiles besides perhaps the Meteor.
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good point, that is why i mentioned combined IRST, ARH, AESA fire control radar, and 2 way DL to ensure a hit even through jamming and decoys
AESA isn’t immune to jamming. Resistant - certainly. However not immune.
You also run into the issue that the further away you get the emitter (e.g. the attacking aircraft) - the greater the effect of defensive jamming on the relatively low-powered missile seeker radar. If you want to maintain your 2-way communication with your AMRAAM you have to bump up the power - which means you become far easier to detect.
In this scenario you might well find a Meteor hurtling back down your bearing - which will probably reach you before your AMRAAM connects. Possibly two - the first to make you break off and go defensive - the other to catch you out while you duck the first one. =)
Either way - we could be here all day. Lots of what-ifs, maybes…
ECM and EW is one of those dark and arcane arts where the people who know it certainly wouldn’t be loitering around on the WT forum.
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but how easy is it to jam a narrow DL directly from missile to aircraft? or to intercept that signal with enough accuracy to do any defensive jamming against the DL frequency.
again, if you only use an IRST to guide in that amraam, which has been done on F-15, itll ignore the TRD and defensive jamming attempts because it has 2 way DL. there is also the matter of burn through range for the missiles own seeker
even if you used the radar and irst, its LPI, itll be pretty hard to pinpoint
assuming F-15 vs EFT, both will detect each other, but the F-15 can bring that giant AN/APG-82v1 to bear to jam the CAPTOR-E into ingame CAPTOR-M state, so the typhoon couldnt pull a meteor launch off sucessfully
Even Russia can do that… its not hard at all.
The only guaranteed way to be immune to jamming/ecm is to use fibre optic cables.
DL is low-powered by it’s very nature - otherwise it would be an easy ‘giveaway’ to the launch aircraft’s location. The simple fact is that the signal will be weaker the further away it is from the launching aircraft.
The way to think of it is if someone is talking to you at normal volume in a busy room. You can probably hear that person if stood next to them. You have a harder job the further away you are. Especially if someone is expressly trying to drown out your conversation by talking loudly next to your intended listener.
IRST avoids that in one way. But IR countermeasures exist. EFT also has IRST of it’s own.
Meteor can still be launched down the incoming track of the AMRAAM in this scenario. If the F-15 is trying to output enough power to jam the EFT (which it might well do) then it becomes vulnerable to home-on-jam. It doesn’t have a TRD to play with - so what does the F-15 pilot do? It becomes a very expensive game of chicken…
For the avoidance of doubt; I’d rather be in the Typhoon defensively. Of course, I’d really much rather not be shot at in the first place. I’d very much rather not be shot at by a NATO aircraft either…
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Israel has two types in service since the 90s
One of them goes mach 9
Even the Eurofighter uses multi mode seeker ordnance such as brimstone
Not necessarily, modern electronics can permit the use of multiple seekers with less weight in the same area as older style seekers.
DASS was made before they could even put an AESA in the plane what makes you think it can work against AESA? DASS being upgraded is a huge point of future Eurofighter upgrade kits and it seems like it’s being rushed.
Try jamming a two-way datalink that is being fed from three separate locations
Modern IRST like legion pod on F-15, IRST 21 on F-18, and EOTS on F-35, and Pirate, are all capable of differentiating aircraft from IR countermeasures. typically, seperate systems tend to be more effective, such as ECM pod vs internal ECM suite, so i dont thinks its unreasonable to give the IRST advantage to F-15 seeing as legion pod is far newer and more advanced.
one of the coolest things an AESA radar can do is make more than one beam. this can be used to jam more than one thing at once no? there is also EPAWSS that the Meteor will have to get through. pretty sure that there are active radar countermeasures (similar/same as britecloud) that can be put in F-15 dispensers so it will be able to screw up the Meteor
im putting this as a 1v1 situation, but considering there will be mostly AESA aircraft on a team at future top tier, this isnt unreasonable
You mean the arrow?
That’s an anti Ballistic misisle system, and is like patriot on steroids.
It’s a very special use case that is designed to shoot down ICBM’s in low earth orbit.
They are easily able to fit the dual mode seeker in its 800mm diamiter body…
It’s a wonder why nobody else has tried to replicate it.
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Well come on now. If the F-15 gets to have extra toys underneath in this scenario - are you expressly stating that the EFT cannot get those same/equivalent pods?
What version of Eagle is being flown by this lunatic USAF pilot wanting to restart the War of Indepedence anyway?
USA has the THAADS
the upgraded F-15E being flown by a war thunder pilot
and im not aware of any IRST pods for the EFT, if it has them it can use them, but the eagle isnt running external ECM pods
turns out we literally do have Britecloud, and it is compatible with the CM dispensors on the F-15E
There was legitimately a dual seeker AIM-7 variant built and tested prior to 1996 - if they thought it was necessary they would have produced them. Now we are focusing instead on AESA seeker and multi-mode guidance + two way datalink instead.
lol
Vs. a Strike Eagle - sorry, my money would definitely be on a Typhoon of similar vintage.
If flown by a War Thunder pilot that’s even easier - he’ll just YOLO headlong into a furball and not bother with any of this fancy EW stuff.
(Latter sentence a bit tongue in cheek but there you go…)
fair enough. strike eagle has gotten some pretty crazy upgrades recently though, especially in Radar, EW & IRST department
lets agree to disagree
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As far as i am aware the Targeting pods that it has can be used as IRST