I can bug report any aircraft with PD MAWS and they will be added as IR MAWS then?
You will not accept a report on the EFT’s MAWS having too much accuracy in regards to the missile angle of approach?
Then what type of a not phased array is the MAW radar antenne is?
A close up of one of the front antennes.
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Oh great - he’ll be hammering on Google for the next 20 minutes for his charts from 1960…
Maybe he has a pathological fear of delta-wings…he did go a bit weird when I brought up Concorde…
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Isnt the MAWS on the Typhoon able to detect what the missile is and the time to impact but you are claiming it has too much accuracy interms of being to determine where the missile is coming from?
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Please read the post I made on this already.
The advantages of the PD based MAWS are time to target information through range gating, as well as distance. The angular accuracy due to the wide antenna beam (something it will suffer from regardless of whether or not it is a phased array due to limited TR modules count and wide instantaneous coverage area) will be very poor.
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bro is getting angy XD Relax he is just getting more info for the devs, he is not demanding it
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Ok, then let me just post this
This is an AESA radar. It is 47,5x27x16.5cm. It weights 18kg with bulletproof armour. It has 120x90 coverage.
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lol
Is this a PD AESA, too?
The AESA you linked looks like it is for an active protection system like TROPHY or IRON FIST and is part of a complex designed to detect fast moving incoming projectiles on short notice. They emit massive radar signatures by comparison and aren’t mounted on fast moving fighter jets which have size and weight constraints. It’s also very modern in comparison to the sensor suite designed in the 80s by GEC-MARCONI for the Eurofighter 2000.
Regardless, the TR count on the AESA you provided will be much much larger than that shown on the singular wide beam antenna.
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love this XDDDDDDDDDDD
Im using it more as a proof that AESA does not need to be a HUGE system.
And once again, where is it said that EF has a singular wide beam antenna. All it ever said is
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The AESA used on IRON FIST gives off massive emissions, it is much larger and heavier than the antenna shown above for the Eurofighter’s DASS. The weight is measured in grams.
The type of radar that can equip a tank and is used for hard kill active protection systems is one of the key technologies that was only possible recently due to modernization of electronics and in particularly the miniaturization of AESA antenna’s. This is not something GEC-MARCONI could have done in the 80’s.
The antenna shown for the MAWS is not AESA. The shape and design indicate it is a much simpler and as I said - the technology for comprehensive AESA based MAWS was only recently realized when Israel needed a hard kill protection system for the Merkava.
How is “accuracy” expressed? MAWS works on the principle of “see->turn on alarm/drop countermeasures”. I don’t remember the missile position being displayed on the HMD, which would mean high accuracy.
Tbh, please provide me with an radar, that has an antenne with that shape. Its shape is quite unique, and does not fit any “standard”
Yeah but even if the angular accuracy is poor how would that reflect in game?
Would that mean instead of being a beam on your maws it’s more like a general area?
If so how big of an area, some paper says aoa error using widebeam antennas can go up to 20 degrees (i honestly do not know if what i read is relevant it was just there), which is why i don’t know if gaijin would go the lenght to implement that and it wouldn’t be big nerf/difference in gameplay anyway.
MAWS in-game is not yet this complex but the precedent must be set for various types. The Eurofighter has the rear sensor, front left, and front right. They must have an instantaneous area of coverage around at least 120 degrees, and the rear at least 180 degrees to provide the 360 degree coverage necessary.
The pros and cons are stated above. The issue is that it has no method of determining a missile is IR or radar unless the RWR is picking up the lock from the enemy radar guiding a fox-1 or the active seeker of a fox-3.
It should have no method of determining the accurate positioning of an IR based missile.
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This is already shown with the RWR’s in-game, the angular resolution on some early models is split up into four quadrants. The MAWS is similar, it should display missile approach angle based on the accuracy of the RWR in the case of the radar missiles and in the case of IR missiles a PD based MAWS as seen on the Eurofighter will essentially be able to say high / low and front left, front right, or rear attack only.
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Regarding the discussion about MAW being AESA or not and which frequency and which modulation could be used: Translated from the german wiki about the MAWS of the EF:
In 1991, GEC-Plessey Avionics was awarded the contract to develop the missile warning systems for the EFA. This also included a test bench for radar frequencies up to 40 GHz, with the option of increasing this to 95 GHz later. A 1994 scientific publication by Elettronica presents radar and EW systems based on MMIC; all systems listed and shown there can be recognized as part of the DASS AESA antennas. The paper also presents an MMIC downconverter for the frequency range of 32–38 GHz. In 1997, it was announced that GEC-Marconi had begun production of phased array antennas in the frequency range of 35–40 GHz for “military radar and communication systems”. In 2005, BAE Systems showed a Ka-band pHEMT MMIC in the 32-38 GHz frequency range in a technology presentation, with reference to seeker and radar applications.
Since GEC-Plessey Avionics, GEC-Marconi, BAE Systems and SELEX Galileo are different names for the same company due to a merger, and no official application of a Ka-band AESA radar from the company is known, it can be concluded with high probability that this was developed and produced for the Eurofighter. Consequently, the missile warning systems will use active phased array Ka-band radar in the 32-38 GHz frequency range to locate and track objects within a sphere around the Typhoon, except directly above and below it. Sources also confirm that millimeter wave radar will be used. In cross-section images of the Eurofighter, it can be seen that the systems in the front wing roots are in two parts. Since Elettronica supplies the transmitters and presented the paper downconverter for the Ka-band, it is likely that the front antennas will use separate transmit and receive modules to operate as FMCW radar. The reason for this is the risk of enemy anti-radar missiles targeting the transmitters, which is why they must have Low Probability of Intercept (LPI) characteristics.
Source: EuroDASS Praetorian – Wikipedia
Much conclusion of extrapolations but no solid evidence sadly…
Expected ranges based on extrapolations for targets with different RCSs can be found in the wiki source.
Additionally: The suspected FMCW mode of the MAW is by nature an LPI mode as it uses extremly low powers and hides its signal in the background noise. You need to know the exact waveform to filter out the signal from the background noise to even know that it’s there. It is similar to the “pulse compression” of impulse radars where the waveform has to be known too, to be noticable in the noise (except the pulse power is too high).
Example pulse compression:
Noise before pulse compression filter:
After pulse compression filter:
It is similar for continous wave radars except it sends continously instead of pulsed.
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I don’t think that would be that accurate either, i imagine some accuracy would still be needed to have the capability to counter and classify multiple threats as it’s advertised.
Even your first source doesn’t state much more than that it can’t calculate direction precisely enough for dircm (which needs pinpoint accuracy) which doesn’t mean it just knows that somethings there without any idea where (except up/down).
He doesn’t have it or you don’t know?
This is how sensor fusion works. Typhoon RWR and MAWS are not separate systems, but part of the DASS
Why is that? Have you ever captured a missile with radar? The same principle should apply here.
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