Eurofighter Typhoon (UK versions) - Technical data and discussion (Part 2)

[DevilO6]

I know, there are multitude of radars in game that should have such capability, but lack it as of now.

[Morvran]

The point is though, in ranges where MICA IR would hold an advantage over ASRAAM, The Typhoon wont be firing an ASRAAM, it will be firing a Meteor, and to that end, I doubt the Rafale would be firing a MICA either, instead they too would be firing a Meteor.

[sudo_su1]

@DevilO6

You are forgetting that such systems are not only low power, but also incorporate LPI features. Ofc, at closer ranges it would be detectable, but dont expect it to be a second radar.

And if we wanted to go that way, i want my RWR to detect all radar altimeters etc…

Radar altimeter isn’t that critical anyways …

Keep in mind that matches aren’t 1v1

Triggering people’s RWR, even if only at short ranges, can alert other people to your presence that otherwise would not be aware of you …

[vizender]

But the same argument holds for the use of the ASRAAM. In the range a typhoon can fire an ASRAAM, both would have fire meteors…
Also, the use case of the IR in this case is for undetected long range shots, in which case the MICA would have the range advantage, whereas the ASRAAM would be able to capitalize on the Rafale mistake of going in the range of the ASRAAM

[sudo_su1]

@Morvran

iirc, the RAF basically realised that with how advanced IIR seekers are and how difficult they are to defeat, that if you had to aircraft with similar range weapons fire at each other, they would both die most of the time.

So instead the ASRAAM was created with a “shoot first, Kill first” philopshy. The entire design is based around the idea of killing your target before they can kill you. Which is why speed was the most important attribute for the ASRAAM. Range just came from having all that speed.

As I said above, that’s a bit contradictory

If IIR missiles are so good that you can’t escape, you don’t want to “kill the enemy before he kills you”

You want to kill the enemy before he launches (“the undefeatable missile”) at you … And range is what enables that, not speed …

@sudo_su1

And if you are both within ASRAAM’s range, and you both launch, yes, perhaps you will get the kill first, but you still have a missile coming your way.

So “hit a target before he gets a chance to hit you” is actually not that great.

But range enables you to “hit a target before he gets a chance to launch at you” …

[Mytho-GR1]

@sudo_su1

Radar altimeter isn’t that critical anyways …

But it would still be detectable and always on

[Mytho-GR1]

@vizender

Which is very dishonest if you ask me because this specifically compares the ASRAAM to the IRIS-T and AIM-9X

Find it dishonest that you think that MICA-IR is a WVR but also a BVR

Like people have said it wasn’t comparing to MICA and acting like people were lying to say that was is just dishonest itself

ASRAAM is WVR missile

MICA and MICA-IR is a BVR

[sudo_su1]

@Mytho-GR1

But it would still be detectable and always on

That’s not the point though

They could technically add a way to turn radar altimeter off (say game option), and you could turn it off without losing much …

MAW on the other hand, is quite critical and will become even more critical moving forward … You will lose a significant defensive capability by turning it off …

Radar altimeter is honestly currently more of a “cool factor” can’t remember the last time I actually used it … Due to measuring the altitude directly below you it’s not even that useful for avoiding terrain in Gaijin’s fantasy world that sometimes is completely covered by clouds …

Plus, almost all (top tier) planes have radar altimeters, but not all planes have a radar based MAW …

[Mytho-GR1]

@sudo_su1

And range is what enables that, not speed …

sudo__su:

What happens when you have a lot of speed and low drag

[sudo_su1]

@Mytho-GR1

What happens when you have a lot of speed and low drag

“A lot of speed” and “low drag” are relative terms

It’s quite clear that IR MICA (Let alone IR MICA NG) will out range ASRAAM by quite a margin …

[Mytho-GR1]

@sudo_su1

That’s not the point though

But do you know what band the MAWS is and what the detection range would be

Like what is even the wavelength do you even know if your RWR can detect it

[Mytho-GR1]

@sudo_su1

It’s quite clear that IR MICA (Let alone IR MICA NG) will out range ASRAAM by quite a margin …

Based on what

And i mean MICA IR and not NG which doesn’t really exist yet

[Morvran]

I suppose the point is MICA IR is a BVR missile with an IR seeker strapped to it, not a WVR missile.

In a fight between IRIS-T, Aim-9X, R-74, Python-5 and ASRAAM. ASRAAM would hit first and kill first.

It’s like arguing that R-27ET is superior to Magic II due to its better range

[sudo_su1]

@Mytho-GR1

Find it dishonest that you think that MICA-IR is a WVR but also a BVR

I mean it kinda is

It’s both BVR and WVR due to its long range and thrust vectoring

Technically you could say ASRAAM also has BVR capability, but obviously not as much as MICA or MICA NG …

[Mytho-GR1]

@sudo_su1

It’s both BVR and WVR due to its long range and thrust vectoring

but its not a WVR that is not what MBDA call it so why would you expect it to be a WVR in MBDAs charts

[DevilO6]

Technically most BVR missiles are WVR.

[Flame2512]

@DirectSupport

Interesting that the UK prioritized time to target in a certain given scenario rather than range. Wonder why that would be the case

It makes sense when you consider the design philosophy of the missile. The basic idea is that modern IR missiles are almost unavoidable, therefore if one is fired at you then you’re probably dead, at which point you don’t really care whether you kill him or not.

Therefore it is reasoned that the only way to reliably win such an engagement is to kill the enemy before they have a chance to fire their missile. So you need a missile that so fast enough that you can fire it and have it impact the enemy aircraft before the enemy has the chance to fire their own missile in return.

[Morvran]

I am expecting soviet mains to use the R-37M at sub 1km ranges when its added

[sudo_su1]

@Morvran

It’s like arguing that R-27ET is superior to Magic II due to its better range

Not quite the same IMO

MICA still has the close range agility due to its thrust vectoring (which R-27ET lacks compared to Magic II)

Plus, both are IIR
Magic II’s seeker is quite a bit better than R-27ET

[Morvran]

Yeah, but R-27ET has better range.