Is there ever a world where the Typhoon receives it’s actual counter measure systems?
MAWS and DASS are hopeless, I have never been protected by the flares from the DASS system
even Aim9H on an F-14 ignored them and the footage from the dev server of it countering an R-27ET also never happens.
I know TRDs are too hard to incorporate into game.
But what about this, give the Typhoon a greater chance against all the things that are coming to game.
Not to beat a dead horse, but AIM-9X/IRIS-T and AMRAAM are fundamentally different …
The first two are IR missiles with the ability to engage high off boresight targets in a close range fight.
AMRAAM is a radar guided missile that can’t engage high off boresight targets in a close range fight.
On the other hand, IR MICA / IR MICA NG, just like ASRAAM is an IR missile.
And apart from the fact that it can engage targets from further than ASRAAM can, unlike your example with AIM-9X/IRIS-T vs AMRAAM, where AMRAAM can’t engage high off boresight targets in a close range fight, MICA can do so, and is actually better than ASRAAM in doing so (thanks to its thrust vectoring) …
Well, if you want to go that route … “You are also assuming the engagement unfolds in such a manner as to allow an ASRAAM to be fired at all” …
That’s the thing, MICA can engage both short and long range targets
Whereas ASRAAM has a “sweet spot” that you have to engage your targets in …
It can’t reach as far as MICA, and it can’t engage as close as MICA due to lack of thrust vectoring …
Pretty much the only thing it has going for it (As far as we can tell … Who knows maybe IRL ASRAAM is 99% reliable and MICA loses target etc 9/10 times), is that it can reach “part of its range / envelope” slightly faster than MICA …
In essence, instead of the enemy having say 12 seconds to launch one back at you, he has say 10 seconds …
Of course all this is assuming IIR missiles are or will be “undefeatable” like people claim … Which I don’t think they will be in the game (And doubtful that they are IRL) … So if you are launching at say a 5-10km target, the higher speed might give it a little better IRCCM just like Magic II and PL-5EII currently have …
But what I’m saying is that this whole “ASRAAM’s speed makes sure you can kill the enemy before he kills you” doesn’t make sense …
Because in most scenarios the enemy will have plenty of time to launch one back at you …
And in closer engagements where the enemy won’t have the time to launch one back at you, he probably wouldn’t have time even if you launched a “slower” MICA that takes 6 seconds to get to him instead of an ASRAAM that takes 5 seconds to get to him …
But is it better then AIM-9X and IRIS-T at this off bore sight no
Does it beat ASRAAM in time to target at these close ranges no
MICA is just a mid missile really because it is trying to two things at once
it is mid as WVR missile because it turns worse then the other TVC missiles and can’t beat ASRAAM in speed or time on targert ( ASRAAM can also engage targets behind the aircraft it was done by the RAAF when they were testing it.) As a BVR missile it is mid at that because of it range as its not beating AMRAAM and only really beats Russian missiles which isn’t a higher bar
MICA is the worst of both modes and before you say that MICA IR can be launched at longer distances then ASRAAM and go really far that point is mute because an AMRAAM would and will always do that job better
I haven’t seen anyone mention this, but I think it is fair to say, that ASRAAM will be caried in bigger numbers than MICA. I will be playing 6x ASRAAM + 4x AIM-120B. On Rafale I would play 2x MICA-IR and 6x MICA-EM.
This will result in more kills easily.
MICA can do that too though. In fact, it’s better at that with the TVC system.
and no one is disputing that.
ASRAAM was not designed for ultra short range dogfighting, which is why they opted to not have TVC. It was designed for shoot first kill first.
THough the fact it can still engage in a 360° envelope despite not having TVC I think is more impressive.
Yep, and unlike the Rafale, the Typhoon’s more advanced MAWS will detect a MICA IR coming at it, but the Rafale wont detect an ASRAAM
why?
UV MAWS will only detect it when the motor is burning. After that it wont. So if its fired beyond its range, then the MAWS on the Rafale is useless. Typhoon’s MAW will detect it throughout its flight even after the motor has finished burning.
Are we still going on about ASRAAM and MICA…This is like the French dude that wouldn’t shut up about PIRATE and how it’s 70s technology.
Both are very good missiles, you want to see how fast ASRAAM is go and compare an ASRAAM launch in Ukraine with a IRIS-T SLS launch in Ukraine.
ASRAAM is insanely fast
Yeah, as I said in the comment(s) that started this heated debate about ASRAAM vs MICA, later Typhoon as a platform will have more things going for it vs later Rafale, one being the ability to carry more missiles.
Kill first, die second :)
(Because the enemy also already launched; And if he’s not aware of you, then MICA should get the same job done as ASRAAM)
I think the “360 deg envelope” is a bit misleading
It obviously has significantly larger minimum range than something with TVC like MICA in off boresight shots …
And hitting targets “behind the aircraft” mainly refers to hitting targets “behind the wing line” …
It can engage in a 360 degree area. Fact.
I think it’s IR
Same difference
But the MICA EM and IR are interchangeable… meaning that the rafale can a carry 8 MICA IR (or 6 for earlier variants), if he choses to not carry any EM.
That’s untrue when it comes to the DDM NG equipped on rafale F3 and later, since we have primary sources stating that the MAW can detect missiles with their skin temperature.
Indeed, the son versatile is going a bit in circles. I originally just wanted to challenge the discussions on the actual performance of the ASRAAM, which brought very good informations, but right now it’s just everyone doubling down on their own beliefs
So can the MICA, and IRIS-T, and AIM9X… however how tight the turning circle is also very important. I think the ASRAAM would have the largest turning circle since it’s faster and lacks TVC.
EDIT this isn’t the full document…let me try and find the testing side
Declassified document on ASRAAM testing on Australian airframes.
It’s time to stop speculating and go and find some data and come back with focused point and not just what you think
Wow, that’s indeed a great document that contributes absolutely nothing to the conversation, since it does not mention the capabilities of the ASRAAM itself whatsoever.
And forgive me from using the assumption that faster Non TVC missile turns in a longer radius that slower missile with TVC. It’s not like there’s a physical explanation to that and should be contested with completely irrelevant documentation
Because it is the same old chat for the last several posts. Yes you can have your views but without data it is speculation.
You can believe the MICA is the best missile in the world and that is fine. However you cannot prove what it can do and what it cant do. The same as no one here can prove what ASRAAM can do or can’t do.
There is a previous document outlining firing envelopes I thought it was on the acceptance test criteria one.
