I suppose the point is MICA IR is a BVR missile with an IR seeker strapped to it, not a WVR missile.
In a fight between IRIS-T, Aim-9X, R-74, Python-5 and ASRAAM. ASRAAM would hit first and kill first.
It’s like arguing that R-27ET is superior to Magic II due to its better range
I mean it kinda is
It’s both BVR and WVR due to its long range and thrust vectoring
Technically you could say ASRAAM also has BVR capability, but obviously not as much as MICA or MICA NG …
but its not a WVR that is not what MBDA call it so why would you expect it to be a WVR in MBDAs charts
Technically most BVR missiles are WVR.
It makes sense when you consider the design philosophy of the missile. The basic idea is that modern IR missiles are almost unavoidable, therefore if one is fired at you then you’re probably dead, at which point you don’t really care whether you kill him or not.
Therefore it is reasoned that the only way to reliably win such an engagement is to kill the enemy before they have a chance to fire their missile. So you need a missile that so fast enough that you can fire it and have it impact the enemy aircraft before the enemy has the chance to fire their own missile in return.
I am expecting soviet mains to use the R-37M at sub 1km ranges when its added
Not quite the same IMO
MICA still has the close range agility due to its thrust vectoring (which R-27ET lacks compared to Magic II)
Plus, both are IIR
Magic II’s seeker is quite a bit better than R-27ET
Yeah, but R-27ET has better range.
Sure, and that does give it an advantage over Magic II in scenarios that the enemy doesn’t see the missile and doesn’t have MAW
But because of its worse seeker and lack of close range agility, it’s worse than Magic II up close (I.e. it can’t hit shots that Magic II would be able to hit)
But MICA has thrust vectoring and IIR seeker like ASRAAM, so it doesn’t suffer from that problem
In fact, if we are talking up close (point black) there are probably shots that MICA can hit that ASRAAM can’t …
Maybe, but as explained previously. If you are getting into sub 2-3km fights with ASRAAM, you are using ASRAAM wrong.
The Rafale will have already been killed by an ASRAAM long before they’ve gotten into the ultra short range position where its TVC is useful.
If the Rafale is fighting an IRIS-T equipped Typhoon in those kinds of fights, then its at a disadvantage.
Again, I don’t know why you all come to that same conclusion
If IIR missiles are “unavoidable”, then you want to launch before the enemy launches
And range is what enables that, not speed
Speed only makes sure your missile reaches him before his missile reaches you …
Range means you can launch before he even gets within range to launch …
And what is the range of both
What is the range of both seekers
It’s literally a different requirement for a missile though. I love how on one hand MICA is this quirky, different missile, that’s not like the others, and yet you insist on comparing it to the others in the WVR class.
ASRAAM is a traditional WVR IR missile. You would not be using ASRAAM like a MICA. At the ranges where MICA’s range is more of a factor than ASRAAM’s speed, you would be using the various versions of AMRAAM, and lets not forget, what ASRAAM was designed it was designed when only the UK was involved in Meteor, France offered a MICA variant for the same programme that the UK offered what essentially became Meteor.
This is not BVR, this isnt a case of who fires first, if you care about that you’d fire an amraam, this is for when you are within 40km of an unaware target or a target who is currently flying away from you, and you need a guaranteed kill quickly.
Do you really want to dispute the fact that MICA / MICA NG has a significant range advantage over ASRAAM?
As for seeker range, both missiles probably need to use datalink updates to utilize their maximum range.
Though, if enemy is not maneuvering, they could perhaps get to seeker range using INS and without datalink update … (I.e. if enemy is aware you use sensors + datalink update and if enemy is not aware yet, you can launch without datalink update using INS only)
Irregardless of that which I wouldn’t dispute by the way, MICA NG literally isn’t even in service, its not some trump card and its essentially irrelevant for the current time period.
This is exactly way a range of more than 40-50km just wasnt needed for an IR missile, for the UK anyway.
Well, you ignored the next line …
And MICA’s range would allow a greater range against “unaware target or a target who is currently flying away from you”
Sure, speed can have its advantages
But I’m just saying this whole “ASRAAM was designed to be fast because with modern IIR missiles you need to hit the enemy before he hits you” doesn’t even make sense …
If IIR missiles are unavoidable, then merely hitting the enemy before he hits you is not gonna solve your problem … You want to launch before he even has a chance to launch and you need range for that, not just speed …
NG exist tho. It was test fired, trialed and is due to enter service later this year, but that’s beside the point (aside from the fact that it would be able to use its TVC at longer range thanks to the independent dual pulse motor)