Also significantly less effective and neither are particularly useful in the real world peer to peer anymore.
Both due to numbers, and capability. Neither are stealth.
Effectiveness wise I can’t really say anything because the gripen never went into combat and Typhoon either, so…
This isn’t David vs Goliath, you can determine how these vehicles will perform without comparing combat records.
It obviously is better, but is it 40Mil dollars better? Even the F-35 is cheaper than the Typhoon. (Although operation costs might be higher?)
I’m not saying either is cost effective, I’m saying that the Gripen and Eurofighter would be like comparing the MiG-23ML to the F-14B.
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You’re right that is the major downfall of the Typhoon, its lack of stealth really screws it, it can be negated with the radar with variable radar frequencies and the IRST but it still loses to any true 5th gen. Unfortunately it came about right as doctrine changed and the funding would have been better spent on perhaps progressing the BAE Replica and MBB Lampyridae.
I suppose though, it still does well against any other 4th generation aircraft and the J-20 hasn’t been exported, and the SU-57 is so rare, and supposedly so bad it wouldn’t matter. Only thing to worry about it Chinese aircraft and if i’m honest i wouldn’t call UK/EU-China peers. I’d say France is a peer or for an Eastward country Japan or Israel.
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We also dont know what its new radar can do, apparently that might give it an edge against some stealth aircraft
I don’t care what the radar can do, it’s not peer to something that can detect it hundreds of miles away to begin with.
Its multi-spectrum or whatever the word is and scans multiple frequencies or spectrums (I’m not sure of the word I’m kinda tired and not an expert). Basically works in a similar way to how those old soviet radars were able to target the F-117 by being able to identify where something is roughly but being unable to target but I think part of the premise is an ability to guide the missile using the vague area that the Stealth jet is in until it can get a close in lock with the IRST/AESA or the missile achieves it’s own lock. But in this scenario, I imagine the best case is the aircraft trade.
To clarify, I think this is how it works in a very simplified way but I am not sure. Then again, the radar can’t be useless because I can’t imagine the F-35 uses the FLIR as its primary targeting device.
A primitive early stealth subsonic attack aircraft vs a highly advanced modern 5th gen, there is no good comparison here.
The F117s mission depended on it flying VERY close to surface to air missile batteries. This close proximity and the spiratic nature of how the SAMS are placed could have lead to its detection (at VERY close range)…
A super cruise capable stealth fighter jet can simply maneuver to avoid detection, keeping his best angles towards target. It doesn’t rely solely on shape, rather also heavily on radar absorbent materials. These fighters have sophisticated sensors that allow you to detect the enemy first and then avoid detection yourself while you stalk them. It won’t matter what the Eurofighters radar is capable of.
That all aside, the closest analogue to the Gripen in Europe is the F-16, possibly early F/A-18s but truly … it sticks out as one of the worst. It’s unfortunate, but it’s true. The Rafale and Eurofighter are in their own class in comparison.
While it’s not a 5th gen it and the Rafael outclass everything bar the 5th gen stealth jets (not including the SU-57 there as that Russian patent put the Su-57 having a larger radar cross section that the typhoon). So besides the stealth jets typhoon is probably the most advanced 4.5 Gen aircraft especially so with new radar suite and smorgasbord of other upgrades it’s receiving.
I know people don’t like pilots quotes much but an American pilot who flew both the F-22 and Typhoon even said the Typhoon can do stuff the F-22 can’t
I guess the KF-21 just doesn’t exist, and neither does the Rafale or block 3 F/A-18E/F.
try reading again
The captor M used a mix of LPRF/MPRF/HPRF for detection and tracking. The carrier frequency is still xband. So no magic low frequency to use to detect stealth fighters, PRF has no play in the scattering
Captor E using aesa antenna probably does. In general aesa radars can as they can form multiple beams in different frequencies and prfs. But no point in talking about it as its just info we wont know in like 30-50 years.
First Prototype for the British one was already given to BAE this year. Leonardo-Radar ECRS Mk2 für britische Typhoons geliefert | FLUG REVUE.
Edit: here is a English speaking source UK to fly Eurofighter ECRS Mk 2 E-Scan radar in 2023, IOC slated for 2030
But yeah until we have reliable info on that the game will probably be dead
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I don’t think that the gap is huge, but its there. But from my interactions with you, you just don’t seem to like the Typhoon, probably due to how overhyped it is and I concede that it is overhyped in areas.
He did mention Rafale they’re equal dependant on mission profile overall Rafale is probably more versatile at least until you compare Tranche 3A/Tranche 4. Super Hornet is off the table, Typhoon is kinematically superior and unless the US are light-years ahead in radar technology then the lower power output of the Super Hornets engine’s is going to limit the radars performance. Given i believe the F-35’s APG-81 radar is supposedly the best one fielded by the US excluding whatever radar the NGAD prototype is carrying, and they’re supposedly equal (but no-one knows), so chances are against the APG-79 (v) 4 Typhoon is still going to come out doing better.
Kf-21 lacks publicly available information but the only published estimate put its RCS on par with the Typhoon, but they’re looking at reducing that. The radar software is provided by SAAB whose radar software was provided by Leonardo and BAe Systems so the Typhoon is at least on par there too. The IRST was started from scratch meanwhile the EFT uses one based on experience from the Mig-29 and Selex’s FLIR for the F-35. There’s several areas I could discuss but I don’t have it in me to have this debate with you again.
Kf-21 is newer, but newer =/= more advanced as was proven by the Tornado vs the Tomcat.
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I don’t like / dislike them it’s simply overhyped as you said. Better to manage people’s expectations because right now people think Gripen is the best thing since sliced bread.
The Gripen is overhyped, but I’m happy to let people have their hype. It’s only when people start comparing the Gripen to aircraft outside of its class, that it becomes an issue as then people forget to manage their expectations. If the Gripen is added alongside maybe the JF-17 Block 1/2, F-20 Tigershark T-50 and other light fighters, I expect it to dominate. Pit it against an EFT, F-15, F-18 or otherwise then it’s gonna struggle.
When you’ve been running Viggens vs F-16/Mig-29s for Sweden and Tornado F3 vs F-16C/Mig-29s anything even remotely gen 4 is a massive massive upgrade. Now for a number of reasons I kinda hope Britain doesnt get Gripen. We have so many options that could act as gap fillers till Typhoon. But dragging our feet on getting THE gen 4 Britian did actually use. Even just because of perceived imbalance, is really quite frustrating, especially with just how much lag we’ve had over the past 2 years in getting anything new
Huh, I thought AESA variant had been in service since the early 2010s or as early as. Its quite grim for bongs if
was something used well into 2010s. Thats even lower than an 1985 F15’s msip psp apg63. Perhaps captorD increased performance and that document was old that it was unclassified.
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