Do not evaluate the rocket only by its dimensions. I have written to some extent. Therefore, when the meteor’s engine is running, it will not be able to perform maneuvers with large angles of attack and glide
Nevertheless, the R-37M is capable of shooting down highly maneuverable targets
The limit isnt on angles of attack per se, but on rolling before turning to avoid starving the ramjet of air. So in midcourse, where manouverability matters the least. In terminal the missile should have enough energy to not require the ramjet.
The only exception is short range shots, but the R-37 would have issues there as well, after all its a heavy and draggy missile. Probably the reason why German Eurofighters are somewhat often seen with 4 Meteor, 2 AMRAAM (and 2 IRIS-T).
Just the angles of attack and slip.Which can cause disruption of work ramjet
Stereotype the rocket maneuvers efficiently
Just like gajin is saying stinger and mistral cant perform better then iglas i am gonna say the r37m cant perform better then phoenix because they are so similar
You cant prove anything manoverability wise.
Honestly you coming in here with stupid claims and no proves. Its a long range missle. But not necesarily manoverable
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Probs more a cost thing, 1 meteor costs roughly 2 AMRAAM’s according to wiki. Likely also the reason we rarely if ever see more than 4 or maybe 6 meteors on a jet at once, and not more, like the aircraft very well could/should be able to carry.
Looks better than AMRAAM to me;
Also lines up with a yet unnamed Ramjet missile from a NA doc;
Spoiler
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Thread Cleaned up… Back on Topic…
If some try on purpose to Derail the Thread, then warnings will be issued next time…
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Yes but without AMRAAM or ASRAAM there is no serious close range HOBS launch capability for EFT
Additionally, the Meteor is heavier and requires more specific launch conditions… will want to be dropped before enemy forces you to closer ranges.
Arguably the Meteor could be one of the best close range HOBS radar guided missiles modeled once it arrives into the game.
There’s several factors to consider.
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Meteor’s seeker irl is derived from MICA EM’s seeker. MICA EM’s seeker has a report out showing guidance delay should be lowered to 0.15-0.20 according to videos that show runtime. If modeled, the Meteor should also adopt and incorporate these values once/if it arrives into the game. So already it will have this over other radar missiles.
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Meteor’s motor is able to significantly output low thrust to extend burntime as well as reducing the radius of the turn.
Currently AIM-120 isn’t able to “loop around” in dogfights properly due to not having enough energy. With Meteor however, it would have a lower guidance delay as well as enough energy to properly come back around with IOG+Datalink and it’s own radar providing guidance.
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Meteor requires initial booster to get it up to a minimum speed before ramjet works efficiently. This isn’t good if the missile turns too soon, wasting this energy… Especially from low speed standpoint. The missile will be scrapped.
The AIM-120’s with HOBS capability have an 8s boost lol
Again, the Meteor is not as good for any kind of WVR situation or merge over the other options available. I’m not saying you shouldn’t carry them, in fact you should carry as many as possible… But the other ordnance is far more useful for closer quarters flexibility.
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I doubt this will be modeled in-game to be fair, allowing the Meteor to be used for dogfights at low thrust constantly looping around.
That all depends on the size of the booster: it’s specific impulse and DV which are unknown.
It is supposedly able to accelerate the missile by +2 mach in 2 seconds ~320m/s^2 acceleration atleast
Or I’ve interpreted it wrong and it’s able to reach mach 2 in 2 seconds from an unknown launch speed., most likely the former, bit that is still unconfirmed and quite unrealistic.
I have only seen videos of the first 0.5 seconds of a meteor launch, so it’s hard to confirm how long the booster is active for, but it is much much faster accelerating at the launch than the aim120 videos I’ve seen.
I’d be interesting in seeing some test examples in the games cdk of how effective this could be in HOBS situations compared to the aim120c5, using a low powered, long burning sustainer as an example with the high powered boost motor.
This isn’t true, we have speed over time sources that are somewhat reliable. It accelerates similar to the R-27ER initially, a hard maneuver will certainly harm the performance as the ramjet will be unable to reach appropriate speeds. Thus, turn radius will need to be large initially and the close-in performance practically nonexistent for any off-bore launches that exceed the capability of the current R-27ER.
Think of the close-in performance gap of MICA vs R-27ER, that’s sort of what we can expect… But the ER keeps going fine whereas the Meteor would choke if it couldn’t get up to speed.
Of course as DirectSupport said they might not properly model these limitations.
That’s a fair point, you could always do as has already been shown and carry AIM-120C/D on the second-most outboard pylon and then of course you have your wingtip IR’s.
All depends on how the meta shifts, if the multipath reduction goes through, particularly with no notch-limit concessions then whoever has the bigger stick will undoubtedly be the biggest factor.
Theres already been notch limit concessions, even before the MP change went through. The fox 3 seekers arent particularly any better than those seen on current live server fox 1’s iirc. Theres also been some other things that havent been modelled, such as reduced smoke motors on the AIM-120A/B and MICA.
Edit: Actually the AIM-120A seeker does appear to be better than the AIM-7M seeker, appears to have been changed since the start of the dev server, though i might have been misremembering. As for how much better, not quite clear, the exact impact of every value isn’t 100% clear to me.
7M (left) vs 120A (right)
The only point it would harm the missiles effectiveness is where it still needs the sustainer/ramjet to reach the target.
The speed of the missile, even after a 90 degree turn would still be > mach 1.5 which is a very generous minimum for the ramjet to be effective.
The ramjet can still accelerate the misisle at that speed.
A currant example of a high off boresight misisle with a very high impulse motor is the magic2. The high impulse at the start of the launch allows the misisle to reach the maximum g very quickly, to make a very hard turn almost immediately off the rails, but beyond a 90 degree turn the speed immediately falls off.
Where it would struggle is once the booster finishes and its still trying to do a high G turn, which would be a scenario where the misisle is trying to do a 180 degree turn where the misisle would be too slow even for a boost and sustain motor.
An all boost motor like the aim120c5 would be a lot more effective in this scenario, but a boost sustain motor such as the aim120a and aim120b would struggle just as much as the meteor.
Either way, this exact scenario is what the asraam was specifically designed for and would be better than any aim120 variant at doing.
The magic 2 isn’t a great example, short motor burn and poor top speed. The turn radius and maximum overload by speed are significantly better than something like the Meteor.
Any HOBS launches result in excessive energy loss, the AIM-120C-5 would have superior turn radius, overload, acceleration, lock on after launch, etc over the magic 2. It has still ~4x the booster time. The meteor would be unable to attain nearly as much AoA or it would burn through the available energy and starve the ramjet.
The Meteors turn radius would need to be large to avoid excessive AoA or even at 1.5 - 2 mach the engine would still starve for sufficient flow.
That isn’t true at all, Meteor would suffer for the aforementioned reasons.
No, the ASRAAM doesn’t have the same reach as AIM-120C+ models but there is an overlap where it may be more / less useful depending on scenarios.
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I think there is a very specific scenario you are trying to use to say the meteor is inferior, which is likely the case, but in all other situations the meteor will have a higher PK and shorter time to target at all ranges.
You mentioned an acceleration graph, what source is this?
good luck
