That does not address the fundamentally zero-sum nature of the objectives themselves. Related suggestions meant to go alongside this are currently in progress of being written or pending approval by suggestion moderators.
If fighters do their thing, attacker and bomber contributions become irrelevant.
Likewise if attackers do their thing, and this used to be the case with bombers before airfield destruction was first made too difficult to practically do and then removed entirely.
The reason your post contains is 100% fictional and made up.
Airfield bombing was removed because it ended matches too quickly and reduced rewards for everyone, especially those that weren’t the bombers.
The new system allows bombers to earn more rewards than before thanks to no airfield bombing.
16+ bases is more rewards than 4 bases and an airfield.
+1, as long as ground targets are rebalanced on some low tier maps.
How would this interact with standard ticket bleed, would you still be able to win or gain a ticket advantage by purely ground pounding 30+ targets, or will tickets be rebalanced so this in no longer possible?
I’m not going to argue with you, man.
Even if this is the case, you cannot possibly argue that under the new system bombers are actually useful to helping their team win.
That is more what I am aiming to “solve” here - grind is secondary to making nonfighters be able to matter even when fighters do their intended job.
Are you sure? Because I find that time played is consistently one of the larger parts of my air RB rewards
A separate suggestion is being written currently which focuses on upending ticket values (and thereby also the total ticket count in matches) to go along with this.
Originally it was part of the whole idea, but that whole idea apparently broke the “bundle of suggestions” rule I wasn’t aware of. So I’m submitting it piece by piece, 3 parts in total.
The other two parts are as follows:
As for the “AI self destruction bleed,” that is a whole separate topic, but it appears as if it has been slowed down pretty substantially save for like two maps (Sicily and Tunisia come to mind).
Yeah, now that I thought about it for more than a second it will actually provide more rewards for longer matches.
It was just that the effort required to achieve the said win is higher. I very often run out of ordnance in a fighter when the skies are cleared from player aircraft, and because you still need to do ground pounding, you are very likely to spend more time to rtb and reach the battlefield yet again, but this time without airspawn mid-course (mostly appliable to 9.0+).
And I am not even talking about bombers… but that’s a sort of a different subject.
These lines were tied to the effort part. I don’t feel like the waste of extra time to destroy extra ground targets is all that worth it, and thus the time you spend in battle effectively should reward more.
But yeah, that is a different topic.
I wouldn’t really say so. There are indeed times when people in Su-25s/A-10s can’t do shit simply because they are subsonic and they happened to get the match where it is not only the map with a greater range to the battlefield/enemy contact, but also their team doing so well that the second they reach the AI targets the match ends due to wiped out enemy team.
This way such attackers and some bombers might benefit from extra time to feast on what is left from the match, especially if allied aircraft ran out of ammo to finish off the ground targets and need to rearm at airfield (which takes some time)
I reconsidered my statement
Likewise, the “time played” section FAR ECLIPSES everything else. It’s a result of the attempts by the devs to cut down on ODL.
4 bases bombed to gain ticket advantage against the enemy team. The last players were a Mig-19 and Mig-23BN, both easily could’ve lived the entire match because our best jet was the F-100s.
7591 RP into a plane that has the 2 rank penalty.
And yes, extending the match extends profits @Savage_SRC , this is well known at this stage.
Nah, I prefer higher rewards for players by having more things to do in a match.
Maybe, but adding double the amount of ground targets adds double the amount of things that need to be destroyed prior to ticket bleed occurring.
AI self-destruction bleed doesn’t exist in War Thunder at this time. It was entirely removed a long while ago.
Edit:
You and I both want longer matches at the end of the day, Ckasaron.
We agree on the end result for sure.
Funnily enough, staying longer in game gives out more RP.
Notice how many games I have on the these british aircraft. Notice how many of them are spaded.
Sure, lower rank and lower BR planes so the point doesnt get across as well, but point is that I got to spade these aircrafts in few long games.
Even when I was grinding HOSBOS on the new SLE Tornado, I really only needed few long games to get them, where I didnt really do anything but bomb bases and stayed alove. I think it was less than 10 games to get them.
In current matches there is hardly a need to ever go RTB and grab ordinance. That would now be expected and normalized - go have fun in the TDM phase, followed by a cleanup phase of ground units and/or bombing Deep Strike-style buildings.
Most real battles operated in such a manner, and thus ALL plane classes would now be included in natural match flow and therefore actually matter to winning. Currently bombers don’t matter at all unless they are low and slow hitting ground units, while attackers only matter if a bomber is in orbit and/or a fighter is humping base AAA.
This also applies to prop matches too, because all too often one big hairball develops right overtop the ground units. Purebred CAS planes like my favorite Hs-129B-2 must wait for it to move or disperse to begin munching on tanks, otherwise it’s suicidal to try doing anything. But most of the time the hairball only disperses with the last plane dying and game auto-ends.
Pretty much, you get what I’m after here. It’s directly inspired by RB EC, but adapted for normal matches. The reasons we like EC are 1) respawns and 2) everything adds up toward a single common goal of ticket depletion.
Yes, and to borrow some terminology from my real-life occupation of organic synthesis, order of addition of the reagents is important.
In order to support adding more and diverse objectives that bring much-needed flavor to Air RB which has been missing for years, first we need to re-pour the mode’s foundation so players HAVE to interact with those objectives to win. Otherwise, what’s the point of adding new objectives for CAS and Bombing if players can still TDM as usual to go home?
The reason Air RB is in the mess it’s in can be most simply understood as players not needing to care about CAS and Bombing, then due to average players not needing to care about them, eventually CAS and Bombing get looked at as “deadweight interfering with muh fighter deathmatch.” When any new CAS/Bombing/weapon for either arrives and disrupts the TDM dominance, people used to only TDM mattering go ballistic and scream down the “offending” vehicle and/or weapon until it’s neutered to irrelevance. That is how Air RB lost all its flavor. The playerbase did it more than Gaijin did, Gaijin simply listened to the largest (and arguably dumbest) portion of the playerbase.
I like the idea, I’d also like for a set of diversified objectives as well and give the AI battlefield an extra dynamic feel to it, maybe give the AI aircraft hidden airfields that you could target, perhaps a base that you have to get close to discover randomly placed somewhere around the map (maybe even irregular objectives like critical infrastructure, dams, communication arrays), huge maps like Afghanistan could become playgrounds for CAS aircraft to prong around in and to have a more meaningful role in after the fighters have duked it out. Although air RB EC would be perfect for the aforementioned the removal of the automatic ticket bleed after all active enemy players are eliminated could bring the possibility of this second phase of the battle to roll out for the winners to spend the remainder of the match doing something else other than just hunting down the last of the enemy team.
Objectives like this become more practical to implement once all players actually have to interact with the non-TDM objectives to win every round. A large part of why they have remained as pathetically lackluster as they are is because the TDM autowin bleed allows most people to ignore the ground units entirely.
Pretty much why I agreed, and also because I advocate for longer matches in general.
I appreciate your efforts - but imho you need to rephrase some things in order to be more precise. In addition you should rework your suggestion regarding your ideas how a new set-up will look like as killing current battle/match goals (“kill all enemy players and/or ai ground units”) sounds easy, but without further changes (like spawn locations & altitudes) for specific plane classes nothing will change.
My recommendations for optimization:
1. Rephrase the title of your suggestion
It boils down that you talk about a removal of the 3 win conditions (Kill all enemy players / Kill all ground units / Kill enemy airfield.
Fulfilling of one of these goal wins the match, the steady reduction of the ticket bar down to zero is just a visual confirmation of that and has nothing to do with “Autowin ticket bleeds”. Auto-ticket bleed is rather rare and happen usually just on very old maps when ai ground troops interact with each other.
2. Point out how your changes will alter the game play
Your suggestion describes mainly effects of the removing of these 3 stand-alone win conditions - and you anticipate that players would react in a specific manner.
If you have watched the recent Q&A vid you might have noticed that gaijin sees the average player as plain stupid child unable to develop things like tactics or strategy - and that they are not interested in complex game play.
Without describing what you want to change exactly in the setup nothing will change for CAS or bomber aircraft in Air RB. Weak fighter pilots will still going for your Hs 129 or any bomber even if they die in this process.
Have a good one!
It would also be nice if ground attack or fighting AI were actually engaging and challenging, if that’s the focus of the action. There’s really nothing more boring and low-effort than shooting at the same copy-paste howitzer in its copy-paste trench, or bombing the same red circle every single match.
FYI, this suggestion is only a portion of my actual proposed Air RB reforms - my first attempts to submit it as one cohesive piece was denied as “a bundle of suggestions,” thus I am submitting it piecemeal. In case it looks incomplete, that is why.
In my understanding, an “autowin ticket bleed” is not merely when one side of a given map will automatically win if no player actions are taken to alter the situation. I also include every instance of a single objective type winning a match on its own.
Nevertheless, thank you for the recommendation, I can do that.
The general idea is that yes, the average player would react in a manner not unlike he/she already does - when left with nothing to do, they go cut grass to bleed away remaining tickets.
Even if snail sees the entire playerbase as the 12-year-olds the game’s age rating claims to be for, I do not really think that “empty enemy ticket bar by whatever means necessary” is hardly “complex tactics.” It’s only meant to ensure all plane classes even so much as have a chance to matter in every match.
The other and more detailed parts of the suggestion are pending approval, and will be linked to this one when they are done. Those are more what “exactly” will change, per se.
That’s the whole idea in a nutshell.
Thank you for the detailed feedback, man. I appreciate it.
Likewise, I too support the addition of more complex, flavorful, and interesting objectives. Both World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, and possible WW3 scenarios offer hundreds of possibilities.
But in order to make adding those objectives worth the devs’ effort (as well as introducing new vehicle classes whose main job is not PvP to perform many of those objectives, such as for example mine-layers), the objectives themselves need upending to ensure all players have to actually interact with ALL of them in EVERY match, like real battlefields would have any soldier do.
@Real_K_Soze Main post has been edited to be more clear in its goals, as has the title. Thank you again for your detailed feedback.
