Now that would really suck if the devs dont considered all that work . I mean the first part was already a good proof but now it’s even better .
The only " issue" is that if they take your math as well and use it to do a ± 3.12% of your first calculation then they can use it in the - way and make the first 8.41% become a 5.29 % and that would mean they could change nothing .
Cause as they explained the regular apcbc have a 10-15% ap cap and the actual value for them was 3-4% .
I really hope they will take your first result that is in the inbetwen of a SAP and an APCBC .
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Actually, such a conclusion would be incorrect as 3.12% deviation in volume does not mean 3.12% deviation in shell cap weight percentage. We know this is true by plugging in the volume from the manually calculated simplified model to get the percentage weight of the AP cap.
Let’s assume the density of regular steel is 7.85g/cm³.
We multiply volume of the shell cap by density to get the mass.
5916.01 * 7.85 = 46,440 g or 46.44 kg
We divide the mass of the AP cap by the mass of the shell to get the percentage weight of the shell cap relative to the shell.
46.44/570 = 8.15%
Now let’s get the difference between this value and the AP cap percentage weight obtained from the worst case analysis.
8.41 - 8.15 = 0.26%
Even if the values obtained from the mathematical proof was used as a direct argument against the accuracy of the mesh volume measuring tool (which is not a fair analysis, since proof by approximation expects small deviations from the real value), the maximum amount of error you can assign using this analysis to the shell weight percentage of the AP cap is ± 0.26%.
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ho yeah my bad my brain did not brain this time i just read % and in my mind idk why i thought you where talking about the final result and not just the volume . but yeah that a better news whatever they say that mean the final result will still be in the inbetwen of a SAP and an APCBC shell AP cap
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So basically, this ship will be useless compare to 6.7 a,d 7.0 ship :/
Paris/lorraine/bretagne wasnt really good … and now we had the potential to have a good ship but hey
Its france, so it need to be nerf
Actually, don’t think so. French quad turret and forward focused citadel without good armor and bad internal layout would be their problem even in Richelieu class. They can be ‘decent’ but never ‘good’ or ‘great’.
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It can be good if angled ( and some luck for the ammo rack ) + the firepower was suposed to be very good but since the shell aint really orthodox gaijin put it with a sap round
but with the richelieu it would be a different story because of how thick is the armor (330 mm at the belt and 50 mm plate behind that with a 40 mm desk near the ammo )
Not entirely right. If Gaijin modeled Dunkerque’s shells correctly, the range would go a long way to helping survivability. But in these point blank brawls they seem to intend the shells to be used for, it will be incredibly subpar.
All the more reason to implement such ships using the best historical case given. Had we simply accepted the 3-4% AP cap weight value from the devs without cross checking their source as well as doing our own research, it could have possibly resulted with the rest of the French capital ships being unhistorically nerfed to SAP.
I believe the devs made a genuine mistake when they mistook the weight of the ballistic cap for the AP cap during their analysis. Everyone can make mistakes in their research and it is not only important to respectfully point them out, but also learn from the whole experience.
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Wait for it : Gaijin will find a way to reduce its protection in some way, such as by not considering the use of void and liquid compartments. Or by completely ignoring the use of water exclusion materials for underwater protection during modeling.
Or by making it a premium vehicle.
i mean why would they do that ? the ship is not overpowered and is compared to other ship of his BR kinda weak so i dont think they would do such a thing . (but the premium theory for the strasbourg can be true tho )
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What other French battleship could be made premium? This is the most notable of the French ships, all the (rare) players of the French fleet would probably be willing to buy it to have it.
The only other options are the Gascogne and the Clemenceau, but given their state during the war, and the fact that they never saw the light of day removes them from the possible choices.
if you are talking about the Richelieu class 2 boats have been made first the Richelieu and the second the jean bart one of them can be a prem but i doubt it since it would be top tier but i maintain that the Strasbourg (the sister ship of the dunkerque with more armor ) could be a premium
it is very bad even angled. Current firepower inflation cannot even assure USS Alsaka and Kronshtadt’s survival. Then Dunkerque which is even worse? Don’t think so.
Firepower is also quite bad even in best condition it could get. Only eight gun with two turret, short-fuze AP that have less or similar penetration to British 15’'. At least British ships have survivability to close quarter. Not for French.
Even with Richelieu doesn’t matter. 50 mm and 40 mm doesn’t mean anything as they will be overmatched by shell bigger than 14’'. For armor… 330 mm will be not satisfactory for now. Actually, we’re put in a situation that even Yamato’s 410 mm armour could be under threat of penetration under 10 km with current guns.
And how long? Like 20 km?
In my opinion, Dunkerque is just better to be 6.7 with SAP. If she gets AP, I would worry that she would be like case of Kongo to go 7.0 as they have similar characteristic.
Richelieu had 2 versions, one before the US refit and one after
I suppose one of the 2 versions and Jean bart can come as tech tree, while the other version left could could come as premium
The better way to adress this problem is map design and decompression imo.
Dunkerque could go 7.0 of the top dogs moved to 7.3-7.7.
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As you say, even the thickest possible armor in the game, that of the Yamato, will be no match for any kind of WW2 15" or 16" shells if most engagements keep occuring somewhere between 10 and 15 kilometers or even closer.
Truth is : the more powerful battleships get, the less armor will matter at that distance. So might as well have all the firepower we can get.
Besides, I don’t really understand the 6.7/7.0 logic. It really doesn’t matter at this br, you mostly only face top tier ships anyway, even in 6.3 ships. You’ll have a small chance to have slightly less powerful ships in front of you, then what ? You’ll still get deleted if you get in the crosshair of the “meta” ships. So once again, might as well get the best shell possible because it’s all that matters.
Truth is, battleships only truly shine in their intended roles in Enduring Confrontation.
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I mean yeah no ship where made to get shot at very close range … that why in the case of the dunkerque he was able to shoot 40 km away
Also 330 + 105 mm is the actual armor of the horst and i can tell it really realy does the job even at close range
But it’s true that ar some point it will not be enought especialy with ship like richelieu and bismarck and yamato .
For exemple the richelieu have a 380 mm gun with an APCBC shell that weight 880 kg and have a velocity of 830 m/s for a HE filler of 20.1 kg . According to the jacob de marre formula the dunkerque could be able to pen 800 mm at point blank
Actually there were… especially Royal Navy and Kriegsmarine, who were to be fight on close combat on North Sea. They tend to build ship with quite good armor for their displacement, or citadel immune to close range shot(either by placing it super low or covered by turtleback)
Meanwhile Marine Nationale concentrated on Mediterannean Sea, where sea is quite clear and peaceful so long range was more favourable for them…
Even now it will be not enough considering late 105 mm will not be effective more than 105 mm even if angled.
That not really true … the french forces was omnipresent in every sea surounding france and better yet it was mostly for the antlantic see for proof the mains construction site where almost all on the west coast of france …
And talking about close range im pretty sure that not all of the british nor the german ship where made for that . I doubt an admiral hipper or a graff spee resist to that .
- 330 mm angled + 50 mm angled too and flat 40 mm desk can be good enought for the actual game even in close range . And yes 105 mm with an angle will be more than 105 mm that how it work
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If it is sole 105 mm yes. But 50 mm and 45 mm armor each means that they will be overmatched by shell bigger than 350 mm and 315 mm. War Thunder has x7 overmatch for long time.
Actually they were. Especially later one have protection that is able to protect against British 8’’ SAP, which is their priority threat.