[Development] Discussing reports related to the Challenger 2 MBT

Speaking of

My book order just came


As if like clockwork.

but I’m sure this mythical source that the devs have is far more reliable despite my suspicions said source is in Cyrillic. but that’s totally unrelated to any problems no no. ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))


Send Gaijin the bill.


They will just say they have different sources for the cost and that it’s potatoes instead of money

what a shame…

Oleg would be very hurt if he could read your unkind words good sir…

well… see you next week XD

and again its the WE DONT THINK PLS GIVE HARD NUMBERS why can russia get the best possible version while others have to suffer the CR2 Ariete Leclerc are the most useless Tanks at Top Tier with their stats being good just because the Vets are playing them

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also the CR2 toke a few hits in Iraq from RPGs ingame it does not have enough armor for that on the places it got hit irl

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He is just the messenger, the forum staff can do nothing for the current fuckery the devs do

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A “few”, on several occasions it was more than 10

i know and we know some got hit on the side and it did not pen well then why is the armor so low ingame when we know how much Pen the RPGs have

The Devs most likely don’t even read the forums/feedback on threads like this. Over the last decade there has been one occasion where they responded urgently to player feedback, and that happened after the review bomb last year.

So biased they can’t even tell they are biased.

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Which mean all of the APFSDS armor pen values are fake. Just a number based on extremely limited information. Not “realistic” at all.

Not that this really matters as the actual pen values of NATO ammunition is classified.

Sure. But let’s not forget that this is still just an estimation of the protection provided based on extremely limited information and is simply not an accurate representation of the vehicles true capabilities. Because the true capabilities of all modern NATO MBT’s are classified. You essentially don’t have any idea where you have too much protection or too little.

Everyone should realize that no matter how pretty Gaijin makes this all sound they are essentially telling you the performance of something with a couple of line drawings and some basic math. They have no actual idea about the accurate protection values of any Western/Israeli/or Japanese tank. The information is all classified.

This is just a massive case of Dunning-Krueger


Honestly the dev blog was better than I expected. I find the claims about the additional armour dubious (it does not seem to achieve STANAG level 5 protection in game from my testing), but for the rest of the armour and the ammo storage I’m prepared to wait and see what Gaijin come up with.

I acknowledge the War Thunder uses the Lanz-Odermatt formula for penetration, however that formula is only as good as the numbers you put into it, and I find Gaijin’s numbers rather questionable (L26 and L27A1 are both 4.3 kg in game, but L27 is a far larger projectile IRL).

The British conducted test firings of CHARM 3 (L27A1) and M829A1 under identical conditions, in order to determine the penetration of both rounds:

While I have not been able to find the exact specification for these trials, subsequent British documents list the penetration of CHARM 3 as superior to M829A1. Therefore I feel that the L27A1 round should be adjusted to be slightly superior (or at least equal) to the M829A1 in game; until the actual design (weight, length, etc.) of L27A1 can be determined.

One of the many subsequent documents comparing CHARM 3 and M829A1:


“lol tl;dr” - Gaijin


I hope the devs will look here.

Two things to point out; firstly as many people have already pointed out STANAG lvl 5 means that the armor block itself should be able to survive the hit, not the armor block, plus the mounting plate, plus the tank’s side armor.

Secondly: all of the challenger 2’s still have their artificially nerfed 4 round ready rack when they should be drawing from the 20 round rack at the back of the turret. Ill admit this had some purpose when challengers were the only manually loaded tank that could hit a 5s reload but now that all abrams can and with their massive 18 round rack, there is no reason why this shouldnt be corrected now


Being serious for a teensy moment.

We’re members of joe public using all open-source information, books, stuff we can trawl on the internet. The players don’t ask for or expect anything in return - no reward.

If I was a company and could enlist a corps of unpaid, willing and motivated volunteers to do a hefty chunk of my R&D for me - I’d be elated. All I’d have to do is just double-check one or two things to ensure no major howlers got through the net; but otherwise I’d have a valuable resource of information and you haven’t spent a penny. Job jobbed.

With Gaijin it seems they don’t much like the idea of people providing them information. In fact they seem to be doing their level best to piddle off anyone and everyone who tries. Whether it be the usual antics of Mr NOT A BUG or Gaijin doing these articles that show how little they know, how little they care and how little they intend to change their mind.

Another win for Gaijin’s PR department then…


Hubris. Especially considering they don’t know anything. They are guessing just as much a the rest of you.