Very nice shots
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Nice !!
Afaik the structural limit applied by gaijin is according to the empty weight of aircraft + weight of a full load of fuel, then applying the specified limits multiplied by 1.5x unless otherwise stated.
So that is what should be tested against.
Most aircraft can exceed these limits for a few seconds at the specified limit before the failure occurs.
For example, The specified limit of the Typhoon limit is 9.0g, multiplied by 1.5, equals 13.5g, however the eurofighter will break its wings almost instantly at 12.5g with a full fuel load and no weapons. So it is likely underperforming in that region.
If the Rafael is able to exceed the limits indefinitely (which can be tested using trim controlls to avoid pilot g limits) then it should be reported as a bug. I don’t have the aircraft and I don’t know what the g limit is specified as.
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9G is is not what it is limited to. 9G is what the aircraft is designed to operate at which is something setting it appart from previous aircraft including the teen series for example.
Just becaue most air superiority fighters since the 70s operate between -3G and +9G does not mean that they all do it with the same degree of ease, especially as payload and altitude are considered.
I do not know the structural limit but 9G is supposed to be normal territority for as long as the pilot may take it.
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In this regard, both the Typhoon and Rafale should be near identical (Within a few G)
If the Rafale is able to pull 20+G without snapping and the Typhoon breaks after only 12G. Then either the Rafale is massively overperforming or the Typhoon is massively underperforming.
In the absence of other 1+TWR delta Canards like the Gripen E. Comparing the Typhoon and Rafale is ideal for this
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I don’t think anyone was ever talking about anything other than the theoretical structural limit.
Its 12G btw, which should put its in-game G-limit to 18G vs the Rafales 11G irl and supposed 16.5G in-game.
Spoiler
Interestingly, this source used in a Rafale bug report also suggests the Rafale has a lower G-onset than the EFT, 12G/s vs 15G/s.
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Does warthunder model G onset? Might be something worth reporting
Idk if gaijin models it, and I’m not exactly sure what it would actually look like either.
If I understand it correctly, it should mean the EFT would be ~25% quicker to execute maneuvers than the Rafale, most likely specifically ones in the pitch direction. But realistically speaking, I dont think itd make much of a difference gameplay-wise unless it was high skilled opponents, probably specifically dueing 1c fights.
Theres a possibility that the EFT’s higher G-onset is modelled and is the “reason” why the EFT felt so dominant in the dogfight before the nerfs despite the Rafale and EFT being (allegedly) evenly matched (according to SS, tho that could also just be SS being wrong). Reason I’m theorizing that for those wondering why is because in a situation where 2 jets are within less than 10% performance difference in ITR/STR, one plane being able to reach the intended point of the maneuver 25% quicker would probably still win the fight if both pilots are reacting at about the same time.
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at low speeds the EF still flys exactly the same because you cannot realistically pull 12g at 500kph
The EFT isnt really meant to be flown slow in the first place, just about any EFT pilot will tell you that.
you arent flying high speeds in a 1 circle fight
What about J-10? That could be used as a comparison
the chinese are so strong that they and their aircraft can sustain 1 million Gs
Depends on what you consider “high speed” 500kph (M0.4 @SL) is super super slow (like, not that much higher than takeoff speed slow). SS states the Rafale and EFT’s highest ITR are at M0.61 (Raf) and M0.51(EFT) at SL. Increase the alt to 5000m though, and suddenly 500kph is M0.43, and the Raf and EFT’s highest (SS) ITR are stated to be at M0.88 and M0.81 respectively. Pump the altitude some more to 10km and now its 500kph is M0.46 and the highest (SS) ITR are at M1.28 and M1.19 respectively.
iirc 1c is preferred at altitude, since you still have potential energy to cash in when pulling max ITR, allowing you to fight for position using your aircrafts lift limits. 2c on the other hand is dominant on the deck (energy generation and management becomes king). Its not so much that 1c fights are meant to be had at low speeds, its that 1c fights on the deck result in low speeds. Granted, I could be misremembering my BFM basics.
he said they’re not meant to be had at high speeds. not that they have to be at low speeds. medium speed exist
even at high altitudes youre not going to be 1 circling at mach 1+ your turn radius will simply be way too wide
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J-10B I think gets quite a decent engine upgrade too. But I dont think the J-10A is massively close. Though I dont really know much about Chinese aircraft
Yeah fair enough. One that arrives it can be compared
Little basic summery;
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You clearly missed the part where he said:
Which is what I was pointing out is largely irrelevant, since the EFT isnt meant to be flown at low speeds, and really, being low speed in general is just not a good place to be in any jets, so saying something like “well it still flies the same in speed regimes you never wanna be in” is pointless.
Also, “medium speeds” are irrelevant to the points “you arent flying at high speeds in a 1c fight” and the above “low speed” comment.
Anyways, a quick comment regarding the comparison between the EFT and Rafales G-onset has turned into discussing the EFT nerf again. If you wanna keep discussing the EFT nerf and flight model specifically, lets do it in the EFT thread.